Modern historians about Macedonia – Ernst Badian

* Ernst Badian (1982) “Studies in the history of art Vol 10: Macedonia and Greece in Late Classical and Early Hellenistic Times”

“We have now become accustomed to regarding MACEDONIANS as northern GREEKS’ and, in extreme cases, to hearing Alexander’s conquests described as in essence GREEK CONQUESTS. The former CERTAINLY became TRUE, in Greek consciousness in the course of the Hellenistic age;the latter may be argued to be true`ex post facto’.” But it is an important question whether these assertions should properly be made in a fourth century B.C context” “Philip II, at least from the time of his victory over Phocis,Athens, and their allies in 346, prepared to proclaim himself the champion of a United Greece against the barbarians”

  “…at this time the GAP between Greeks and Macedonians was by no means bridged. The work… toward bridging it, and the work of Alexander who was himself the result of that long PROCESS… was to take perhaps Another century to reach fruition. Perhaps it was not fully completed until both parties became CONSCIOUS of THEIR UNITY, As it had by then developed, in contrast to a connqueror from the barbarian West.”

 Quote: “… as Brunt rightly points out, an ethnic difference between Greeks and Macedonians was in Arrian’s own day SO REMOTE as to be practically beyond understanding.” [E.Badian Footnote #72..)

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makedonomachos says:

Hellenistic civilization

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | 2008 | The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Copyright 2008 Columbia University Press. (Hide copyright information) Copyright

Hellenistic civilization The conquests of Alexander the Great spread Hellenism immediately over the Middle East and far into Asia. After his death in 323 BC, the influence of Greek civilization continued to expand over the Mediterranean world and W Asia. The wars of the Diadochi marked, it is true, the breakup of Alexander's brief empire, but the establishment of Macedonian dynasties in Egypt, Syria, and Persia (the Ptolemies and the Seleucidae) helped to mold the world of that day into a wider unity of trade and learning.

While the city-states of Greece itself tended to stagnate, elsewhere cities and states grew and flourished. Of these the chief was Alexandria . So great a force did Alexandria exert in commerce, letters, and art that this period is occasionally called the Alexandrian Age, and the end of Hellenistic civilization is generally set at the final triumph of Roman power in Alexandria in the 1st cent. BC Pergamum was also prominent, and there were other cities of influence (e.g., Dura).

makedonomachos says:



This article is part of the FILE devoted to ancient Greece.

Said of the historical period of the conquest ofAlexander (331-323 BC) to Roman rule (31 BC), characterized by large monarchies and Greek civilization specific.
(larousse Dictionary)

SureDo says:

First of all, it's Hellenistic ("Greeky", "Greek-like"), not Hellenic ("Greek"). It's irrelevant here, really, but too many people make that mistake, even when they know books concerned with that era!

Second, what the text shows is that *even* historians (like Badian) who don't consider the Macedonians to have been "originally Greek", even by the time of Philip II and Alexander III, agree that they were considered Greek later on, during Hellenistic times and by the time of the rise of Rome. Certainly before any irrelevant people decided to connect themselves to them, for example.

Stam says:

Hmm don't you guys understand "the former CERTAINLY became TRUE, in Greek consciousness in the course of the Hellenistic age;"

The Hellenic Age was AFTER Alexander (see Peter Greens book on it). The point Badian is making is Greeks believed Alexander was Greek AFTER he was dead. In the original text the implication is some centuries after. The follow on from that is -- Greeks did not believe Alexander was Greek before then.

yuNus says:

Thanx for share.