Letter from FYROM’s slavs to Oliver Stone

 

This is taken from one of the well-known propagandistic sites of FYROM found here:
www.ancientmacedonia.com/alexander.html
posted by someone called ‘Daniel Makedon’ (sic!) who honestly must visit ASAP his local library before exposing himself so ridiculusly again.

FYROM Claim:

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1) Where are the Historical Errors in the film?

Stone has Collin Farell (as Alexander) saying to the Macedonians — before the battle of Gaugamela against the Persians — that they are fighting for “the glory of Greece.”

Ancient sources do not write that Alexander fought for the “glory of Greece” but for that of Macedonia. Three ancient historians detailed Alexander’s address to the army before the battle. And each one of them made a clear distinction between Macedonians, Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians, as four separate ethnicities that composed Alexander’s army

On the contrary, dear propagandist you prove yourself to be terribly misinformed.

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“…he (Alexander) inflicted punishment on the Persians for their outrages on all the Greeks, and how he delivered us all from the greatest evils by enslaving the barbarians and depriving them of the resources they used for the destruction of the Greeks, pitting now the Athenians and now the Thebans against the ancestors of these Spartans, how in a word he made Asia subject to Greece.”

Polybius, Book IX, 34, 3

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he spoke to them in moderate terms and had them pass a resolution appointing him general plenipotentiary of the Greeks and undertaking themselves to join in an expedition against Persia seeking satisfaction for the offences which the Persians had committed against Greece

[Diodorus of Sicily, 17.4.9]

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He set the Persian palace on fire, even though parmenio urged him to save it, arguing that it was not right to destroy his own property, and that the Asians would not thus devote themselves to him, if he seemed determined not to rule Asia, but only to pass through as a conqueror.

but Alexander replied that he intended to punish the persians for their invasion of Greece, the destruction of Athens, the burning of the temples, and all manner of terrible things done to the Greeks: because of these things, he was exacting revenge.
but Alexander does not seem to me to have acted prudently, nor can it be regarded as any kind of punishment upon Persians of long ago.


[Arrian Anab. 3. 18. 11-12].

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In the circumustances you must forgive me Diogenes, for imitating Heracles and emulating Heracles. Forgive me for following the footsteps of Dionysus, divine founder and forefather of my live, and wishing to have Greeks dance in victory again in India and remind those mountain-men and savages beyond the Caucasus of the revels of Bacchus

[Plutarch Moralia]

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Alexander’s letter ran thus: “Your ancestors came into Macedonia and the rest of Greece and treated us ill, without any previous injury from us. I, having been appointed commander in chief of the Greeks, and wishing to take revenge on the Persians, crossed over into Asia, hostilities being begun by you. For you sent aid to the Perinthians,’ who were dealing unjustly with my father; and Ochus sent forces into Thrace, which was under our rule. My father was killed by conspirators whom you instigated5 as you have yourself boasted to all in your letters; and after slaying Arses, as well as Bagoas, and unjustly seizing the throne contrary to the law of the Persians, and ruling your subjects unjustly, you sent unfriendly letters about me to the Greeks, urging them to wage war with me. You have also despatched money to the Lacedaemonians, and certain other Greeks; but none of the States received it, except the Lacedaemonians. As your agents corrupted my friends, and were striving to dissolve the league which I had formed AMONG the Greeks, I took the field against you, because you were the party who commenced the hostility.

Arrian 2a14

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He said, moreover, that the Greeks who were coming into conflict with Greeks would not be fighting for the same objects; for those with Darius were braving danger for pay, and that pay not high; whereas, those on their side were voluntarily defending the interests of Greece. Again, of FOREIGNERS, the Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, and Agrianians, who were the most robust and warlike of men in Europe, were about to be arrayed against the most sluggish and effeminate races of Asia.

Arrian 2a7

For all these you have missed dear propagandist you cant start filling your endless gaps Arrian Anabasis

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FYROM Claim

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2) Why the Macedonians and Greeks still hate each other today?

Macedonia is now divided between today’s republic of Macedonia, Greece, and Bulgaria. The division occurred in 1912 when Greece, Serbia, and Bulgaria occupied and partitioned the country, inflicting a tragedy upon the descendents of Alexander. In the 19th century Macedonia was occupied by the Turkish Ottoman Empire. The Macedonians then were well aware that they, and they alone, were the descendents of Alexander’s Macedonians. The Rules of the Macedonian Rebel Committee proclaimed at the Macedonian Uprising in 1878 fighting liberation of Macedonia from the Turkish empire proclaim:
……………………..
This stealing of the Macedonian history by the Greeks is resented by the Macedonians who have long before the Greeks claimed descent from Alexander, and still do.

Dear propagandist, i always enjoy to witness persons like you, so blatantly brainwashed that make me wonder whether i should just laugh with the paralel universe they are living or i should heavily starting worrying about the future of the balkans with people so exposed from their fascist states into the worst forms of Nationalism.

The propagandists of FYROM simply ignore the fact that Nobody has invaded Macedonia in 1913 but instead during the first Balkan war, the Balkan coalition between Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro INVADED OTTOMAN EMPIRE, for the liberation of Bulgarians, Greek and Serbs who lived there. The movement for independent Macedonia, which started far earlier (at the end of the 19th century) had an UNDISPUTED BULGARIAN CHARACTER and this fact is described by any contemporary (of the time) observer, historian, diplomat, nomatter what the skopjan propagandists claim. There is no need to rewrite history – it’s well described in so many books. There are many examples of 1 nation living in 2 different states. Furthermore, Macedonia had a rather mixed population at that time because of which the idea for independent Macedonia was more attractive for the local population than the idea for union with Bulgaria. The fact that the uprising in 1903 was a Bulgarian one and the fact that IMRO was an organization founded by BULGARIANS are descibed in all books (from that time and even in all books pre-1945).

In addition, any claim from FYROM propagandists that this was an act of imperialism is downright silly, especially in light of the fact that the Christian populations of Macedonia and of the rest of the Balkans consisted exactly of Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians and no “Macedonians” as previously stated, because no distinct Macedonian nation had ever existed until its artificial creation by the Yugoslav communist regime at the end of World War
II.

I must stress the point that none of FYROM geniuses ever dared to address: That all, and I repeat ALL, population statistics of the last years of Ottoman rule for the vilayets of Macedonia mention Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians, Serbians, Jews, gypsies – but *not* a single “Macedonian”. Until 1914, the concepts of “Macedonia” as a Slav state and of “The Macedonian race” as a separate nationality were absolutely unrecognised. Neither the Treaty of Berlin, nor the Treaty of San Stefano make any reference to such concepts. There are no statistics prior to WWII ever mention any “Macedonians” as a distinct nation!!!!

For the word “Macedonian” is a geographical and not an ethnic attribute. It has been used to denote a Greek from Macedonia (as in the “Macedonian dynasty” of Byzantium) or, later, also a Bulgarian from Macedonia. It is the part of the Skopje population that is ethnically Bulgarian and has been heavily brainwashed by the Yugoslav communist regime (even to the point of trying to artificially modify the language, but even now it is only a Bulgarian dialect), with only partial success, to think of itself as istinctly “Macedonian” – for the purpose of usurping the Greek Macedonian historical heritage and laying territorial claims on Greece as well as for inhibiting any Bulgarian effort to lay claim on FYROM’s territory.

During the years 1922-1925 the following population changes occurred in Greek Macedonia:

– in conformity with the Greek-Turkish Treaty of Lausanne (1923), the Muslims were moved to Turkey.
– in conformity with the Treaty of Neuilly (1919), 53,000 Bulgarians from Greek Macedonia were resettled in Bulgaria.

To these figures one should add 29,000 Bulgarians who had fled to Bulgaria during the war. The Greek refugees from Turkey and Bulgaria settled in Macedonia on lands left vacant by the Muslims and Bulgarians.
The League of Nations’ figures given above are authoritative since the population re-settlements were carried out under its aegis and with the supervision and responsibility of the International Committee.

The League of Nations (Greek Refugee Settlement – 1926) vested with its authority the following count for Greek Macedonia:
1912 1926

Greeks 513,000 1,341,000
Muslims 475,000 2,000
Bulgarians 119,000 77,000
Various 98,000 91,000

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3) Why today’s Macedonians are direct descendents of Alexander?
In 2001 it was proven by a scientific team from Universidad Complutense in Madrid, Spain, that the ancient Macedonians and the ancient Greeks were two separate and distinct peoples. It was also proved that the modern Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians of Alexander the Great, while the modern Greeks are not related to either the ancient or modern Macedonians. The lengthy scientific paper which was published and entitled “HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks”, concludes the following:

“Macedonians belong to the ‘older’ Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians. Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the “older” Mediterranean substratum. Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Macedonians are related to other Mediterraneans and do not show a close relationship with Greeks: however, they do with Cretans. This supports the theory that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples living in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before the arrival of the Mycaenian Greeks, about 2000 BC.”

Thus, genetically and scientifically it has been proven not only that the ancient Macedonians were not Greek, but that they are older then the ancient Greeks. You may read the full content of this genetic study at the following web address:

Someone could easily bet FYROM propagandists have never been told that the above absurb “research” has been refuted by the scientific community.

Letting aside that its at least ‘suspicious’ from the very first moment this “research” team is comprised of natives of FYROM like:

K. Dimitroski
M. Blagoevska
V. Zdravkovska

the so-called ‘research’ has been ridiculed by well-respected geneticists like

Neil Risch
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

Alberto Piazza
Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry, University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy

L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

who concluded that:

We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit.

Access to articles : Nature

For EVEN more you can read on your own the excellent article of Macedoniaontheweb on the issue.

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FYROM Claim:
4) Greek Racial Discrimination against the Macedonians in Northern Greece

The 80-page human rights violation report on Greece entitled “Denying Ethnic Identity – Macedonians of Greece” which was published in May 1994 concluded:

…………….
Here we have to mention the so-called “Pan-Macedonian Association”, a Greek racist group with a history of well-documented racial hatred against the Macedonian people. It is a deliberately misnamed racist organization of Greeks whose raison d’être is to deny the existence of a distinct Macedonian identity in North America, precisely as Human Rights Watch had described it in Northern Greece. Both Greece and its “Pan-Macedonian Association” strive to appropriate the Macedonian history as “Greek” while in the process denying the existence of both the ancient and modern Macedonians.

Dear propagandist, obviously Greeks cant persecute and discriminate Macedonians since Macedonians are Greeks themselves and enjoy living in Greece. On the contrary, the inhabitants of FYROM, as Slavs have NO connection to ancient Macedonians, thus they are nothing like “descendants of ancient Macedonians”.

Its at least ironic from your side, to talk about human right violations while in the last years the state of FYROM has been a paradise of..human rights violations, Venom against its minorities and neighbouring countries like Greece and Bulgaria.

The greatest irony comes from the claim Pan-Macedonian Association is a…racist group while dear propagandist, YOU as the typical example of a person who promotes Ultra-nationalist and hate-driven sites like History of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation you prove to be…exactly what you accuse others for. This anti-thinking, anti-questioning attitude is typical fascist!!!!

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FYROM Claim:
5) Ancient and Modern Evidence about the Distinct Macedonian Nation
The long list of modern scholars (among which are Eugene Borza, Waldemer Heckel, A.B. Bosworth, Peter Green, Ernst Badian, Carol Thomas, S.M. Burstain, P.A. Brunt, John Yardley), agree that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, but a distinct nation. Their views concur with the Spanish genetic research above. Eugene Borza, Historian, Professor, and Archeologist, whom the American Philological Association refers to as the “Macedonian specialist” wrote:

Dear Propagandist, I see that you set this time aside to humiliate yourself even more. NONE of the above historians claims that YOU (slavs of FYROM) are related with ancient Macedonians!!!

On the contrary, even your favourite – as it seems – Eugene Borza has repeatedly said that the slavs of FYROM are totally unrelated to ancient Macedonians.

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During medieval and modem times, Macedonia was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks.

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The emergence of a Macedonian nationality is an offshoot of the joint Macedonian and Bulgarian struggle against Hellenization. With the establishment of an independent Bulgarian state and church in the 1870s, however, the conflict took a new turn. Until this time the distinction between “Macedonian” and “Bulgarian” HARDLY existed beyond the dialect differences between standard “eastern” Bulgarian and that spoken in the region of Macedonia.

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Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and Macedonians, CANNOT establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émi-grés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity.

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the Macedonians are a NEWLY emergent people in SEARCH OF A PAST to help legitimize their precarious present as they ATTEMPT to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians.

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The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, who have had NO history, need one. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called ”Macedonia” for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own SO-CALLED Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation “Macedonia” and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival.

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It is difficult to know whether an independent Macedonian state would have come into existence had Tito not recognized and supported the development of Macedonian ethnicity as part of his ethnically organized Yugoslavia. He did this as a counter to Bulgaria, which for centuries had a historical claim on the area as far west as Lake Ohrid and the present border of Albania.

“Macedonia Redux”, Eugene N. Borza, The Eye Expanded: Life and the Arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity, Frances B. Titchener and Richard F. Moorton, Jr., editors

Best Wishes,

Ptolemy

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