Comments

 [simple-sitemap]

You can share your point of view with myself and all our readers but before keep in mind the following:

* All comments are moderated prior to posting them.

* All comments that we choose to post are the views of their authors and by posting them, this does not imply that I agree with the contents.

* Email addresses are required but this doesnt mean they will be displayed with comments.

* Anonymous comments, promotions, advertising, or spam  will not be posted in the Blog.

* Comments containing abusive, Unintelligibleand/or way off-topic remarks will not be posted.

* Allowed languages are Greek and English.

Comments
agatha says:

To P.Kalos,

Risto Stefov -- aka Christo Stefou -- often alters historical quotes to project what he wants to.

He is by no means honest, since he missquotes from original material.

I would not give him any weight.

He is rumoured to be a soured Canadian/Fyromian that is neither a historian neither
does he have any credentials to back up his claims.

Please note -- that his work is only promoted via internet and not accepted by any academic
study on the matter.

Paymmendy says:

hmm… good one

P.Kalos says:

I Just wanted to bring our attention towards a recent series of media publications made in the American Chronicle.

As much as I like to read other people’s writing, I don’t like to see one sided affairs in official media circles. A blog can be about opinions, but a media article, I expect that to be more balanced with substance.

Of late I’ve seen a lot of work from a prolific FYROM writer by the name of Riso Stefov. Reading his work in the American Chronicle on-line in April and May of 2009, I can honestly say that much of it is very one sided with really strong anti-Greek sentiment. The lack of balance is what weakens his writing, although take nothing away, he is a prolific writer none the less, bringing up themes and subject matter that is typical of a FYROM inspired push of a nationalistic Republic of Macedonian with territorial ambitions towards Greece and it’s true province of Macedonia. Please search, and you’ll see what I mean.

He refers to Metaxa as the dictator, discusses Greek assimilation of Macedonia people, questions modern day Greece’s existence, says why didn’t Greece complain about Yugoslavia’s naming of Macedonia in 1945, and raises many other themes and issues that are quite challenging to accept.

No matter how subjective, objective, fact or lack there of, call it what you will, his writing does give us a window into what these people are believing and thinking. So their hostility towards Greece is no doubt due to their belief and passion in this work, and it may be an honest response, but they really need to be honest and be more balanced, and not be herded like sheep with this group-think.

To help give balance to some of the themes raised, I would like to invite some of the educated scholars to respond to his writings in the American Chronicle. I clearly don’t have the skills and knowledge to do this, but I do know when there should be equality in writing, which in turn gives equality in peoples understanding.

That’s we really need, more people in the World understanding both sides of the story.

Thanks again for giving me a chance to contribute.
God bless!

agatha says:

Correction, it’s 60,000 artefacts -- not monuments -- typo. Also, Romans took so much loot
from Ancient Macedonia -- they took a month to carry things over to Rome.

The artefacts and treasures taken were enough proof for them to state that the Ancient Macedonians
were Greek people.

Also, the Ptolemaic royal family of Egypt -- spoke GREEK. It was not until Cleopatra
that any royal spoke Egyptian in court.

What then does this imply to the FYRoMians that deny the truth?

Why do FYRoMians speak a Bulgarian dialect if they are the true Macedonians?

Why is this language not recorded anywhere throughout the Macedonian Empire left by Alexander?

Why did the Persian historians not agree with the current day FYRoMian historians?

agatha says:

Keep up the good work. God willing the truth will keep being exposed in the artefacts found from the Ancient Macedonians themselves -- if 60,000 artefacts already found isn’t enough anyhow.

Even the Roman historians stated that the Ancient Macedonians were Greek people.

The Persians also referred to the Macedonian army as “Greek with hats”
and they had much experience with Greeks living in Asia Minor and along the Aegean coast.

Furthermore, the Macedonian empire was totally Greek in culture, language and left a trail of artefacts
proving this.

If the FYRoMians cannot see this, understand this, accept this, study this or even witness this
it’s because they choose not to.

They want to believe that they are true Macedonians -- it pleases them to be linked to Alexander the Great,
even though Alexander declared he was Greek from Macedon.

So, ineffect, for the sake of truth and the maintenance of Greek historical and cultural heritage
we must keep studying, visiting our ancient sites and stating the Truth about the Ancient (Greek) Macedonians
and their legacy.

God willing a significant monument that could finally stop their lies will be uncovered,
since 60.000 monuments so far is not enough for them!

Also, it’s one thing to say you want to be known as a Macedonian -- because geographically that’s where you came from and it’s a total other thing to fabricate lies to alter the history of the True Ancient Macedonians.

As a migrant to Australia, my parents have never claimed the ancient Australians as their own.

Nick Nikolas says:

Having ‘Greek blood’ does not necessarily make someone Greek.
In order that we be Greek, it is nacessary that we have something more.
We must get to know, respect and protect our heritage, our lanquage.

Dimitris says:

Well, I believe that Language provides all the answers…Perhaps, History can be modified. Language not!

I live close to Vergina, where they stand for 2300 years the Palace and the Tombs of Phillip’s B’, how was the father of Alexander the Great.

An article from Skopje, claim that Ancient Greek Language, was the English of Antiquity. Nowdays, it is commonly acceptable that English is a Global Language. But even if it’s Global, every country and everyone in his personal life, is using its mother language.

Why in the Tombs and Palace of Phillip B’ has Ancient Greek signs at them?

The answer is obvious: Because he was Greek.

Have you seen many Egyptian Tombs with Ancient Chinese signs at them?

Of course not….There is no such thing….

Well, if Phillip B’ was Greek, then his son (Alexander the Great), must be Greek. Unless, his mother (Olympiada) was not Greek.

But we know that Olympiada was a priestness of Kaveiria Mysteries. We also know, that at these Mysteries, were involved ONLY Greeks….

George says:

The Athenian making fun of the Macedonian said Kestra the Macedonian said Sfyrena. Who was right? The Macedonian of course. Look for the scientific name, market name etc in the USA.

Barracuda Fish
Market name Scientific name Common name Vernacular (a.k.a)
BARRACUDA
Sphyrena Argentea Pacific Barracuda California Barracuda/ Barracouta
Sphyraena Barracuda Great Barracuda Short Barracuda/Picuda/ Becuna/ Seapike / Pike
Sphyraena Picudilla Southern Sennet Picuda/Piccudilla/Barracuda.
Sphyraena Borealis Northern Sennet None
Sphyraena Ensis Vicuda None
Sphyraena Guachancho Guaguanche None
Barracuda Fish.
Note: Atlantic Barracuda fish can cause ciguatera poisoning.
Barracuda fish is more a game fish than a commercial one. Most of the commercial barracuda comes from Florida the Caribbean waters, and California.
Generally found in the warm waters of the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico.
The Pacific Barracuda rarely exceeds 12 lbs. while the Atlantic variety can weigh over 100 pounds.

Pacific Barracuda.
Some of the species of barracudas occurring in the Pacific.
Vicuda (Sphyraena Ensis)
Pacific Barracuda (Sphyrena Argentea),also known as California Barracuda, Barracouta, Snake, Scoots, scooter, Barrie, and California barracuda.
Range: From Kodiak Island Alaska to Cabo San Lucas, Baja California.
A game fish, reaches a length of 44 inches, and an average weight of 4 to 8 pounds. Very seldom exceeds 12 pounds. The color is brown with blue tinge, and metallic black or gray back.
California barracuda is a fat, oily fish with short shelf life. Excellent food fish, with firm-textured, full-flavored meat. Good for broiling. Can be used in fish cakes.
Available in spring and summer in California, the fish is available from Mexico all year.
Market forms.
Fresh, headless and dressed, fillets and steaks, smoked, canned or dried.
Barracuda must smell sweet and fresh. Keep the fish in ice.
Atlantic barracuda.
Great Barracuda (Sphyraena Barracuda), also known as Short Barracuda, Picuda, Becuna, Seapike, and Pike.
Range: From Massachusetts to Brazil. Mostly in the West Indies.
The great barracuda is one of the largest of barracudas, reaching 16 feet in length, and up to 100 pounds in weight.
Guaguanche Barracuda (Sphyraena Guachancho)
Range: From Massachusetts to Brazil.
Mush smaller then the Great barracuda can reach 20 inches in length. It is the best food fish of the Atlantic Barracudas, and considered a delicacy in the West Indies.
Northern Sennet (Sphyraena Borealis).
Range: From Massachusetts to Uruguay.
The Sennet is a close relative of the Pacific barracuda. It can reach up to 15 inches in length.
Southern Sennet (Sphyraena Picudilla), also known as Picuda, Piccudilla, Barracuda.
The Southern Sennet is almost the same fish as the Northern sennet.
Both are excellent food fish, with commercial importance.

Nikolaos Macedon says:

You are doing a good job but you need to print more in English so that the English speaking Slavobardaskans can read it too so they can learn where they are coming from.

Ophelia Roop says:

I would like to point out that you have not translated “BORBA” accurately. You have translated it to mean “battle” but “borba” actually means “struggle.” The word for “battle” is entirely different.

Α. Δεληγιάννη says:

Μού στείλατε μία εξαιρετική απάντηση και χωρίς να το θέλω την έσβησα. Θερμή παράκληση, να μού την ξαναστείλετε.
Ευχαριστώ.

Α. Δεληγιάννη says:

Σχετικά με την υποτιθέμενη επιστολή Miller: Ενώ στο περιοδικό Archeology τεύχος Ιαν-Φεβ πράγματι υπάρχει άρθρο εις το οποίον υποτίθεται ότι απήντησε ο Miller (μπορείτε να το δείτε εδώ: http://www.archaeology.org/0901/abstracts/letter.html), στο επόμενο και τρέχον τεύχος δεν υπάρχει καμμία απαντητική επιστολή ούτε από τον Μίλλερ ούτε από κανέναν άλλο.
Είσθε σίγουροι ότι αυτή η επιστολή που κυκλοφορεί ευρύτατα στο Διαδίκτυο δεν είναι ένα ακόμα hoax απ΄ αυτά που συνηθέστατα βλέπομε, αφελώς πιστεύομε και ακρίτως αναμεταδίδομε;
Αν θέλετε την πλήρη, τεκμηριωμένη και σοβαρή επιχειρηματολογία υπέρ των ελληνικών δικαίων στην Μακεδονία, δείτε και διαδώστε την εξαιρετική έκδοση της Εταιρείας Μακεδονικών Σπουδών “Μακεδονισμός: Ο ιμπεριαλισμός των Σκοπίων -- 1944-2006” που επίσης βρίσκεται on-line εδώ: http://www.ems.gr/ekdoseis_katalogos.php?id=452.
Εμείς οι Έλληνες έχομε στο μακεδονικό ζήτημα όλα τα δίκαια με το μέρος μας. Είναι κρίμα να αυτοπαγιδευόμαστε.

dodoni says:

Dear P.Kalos,
The new Greek state was established in 1830 (180 years ago).The answer to the rediculous point that “nation “greece” has only existed for just over 100 years” (sush as George Kirov Says) follows:
Here is some piece of information that summarise the Hellenic/Greek history that spans several milleniums in the Mediterranean:
Bronze ages -- 3.000 BC to 1.100 BC The first Greek civilazation was the Mycenaean one (Ahaioi).Myceneans were called the people who speak the Greek language and live at Greece. Most important cities are Mycenae, Iolkos, Tiryntha and other places such as Messinia and Lakonia. They develope in the 13th B.C. the writting of “Grammic B” which was decoded by M.Ventris and J.Chadwick in 1952. The docoding connects the Minoites as part of the Mycenaean world (“Documents in Mycenaean Greek”- M.Ventris and J.Chadwick).Their gods were Zeus, Ira, Poseidon, Athina, Dionysos, Aris who were living on the top of Olympous mountain (Omiros, Iliada, O, 187-193 & Odysseia- 8th century B.C.).
At the end of the Mycenaean time more Greek trides came to Greece such as Mollossoi, Thesprotoi, Thessaloi etc and some others returned to their homeland (Dorians, the descendants of Hercules (read the ancient writters Thoukididi, Herodotos etc)
12nd century B.C. The 1st colonization: Greeks emigrate and establish cities at the Mediterranean coast that they named Ionia (coast of modern Turkey).
8th century B.C. The 2nd colonization: Greeks emigrate and establish cities at Euxeinos Pontos, modern Italy, north Egypt, modern France and Spain and many other places.
The above (the Greek history from 3.000 B.C to 6th century B.c.) are documented and established facts by the ancient writters and modern history and archeology. From the 6th century B.C. to the nowdays history is well known, unless someone doesn’t want to accept it and falsifies it.
If you want more and not just a taste you can ask me for some books to recommend.

Thank you very much.

dodoni says:

Good morning.
First of all i’d like to apologise for my english in advance.Then, i’d like to share some of my thoughts.FYROMians stand up for the right to self-definition.They stand up for the right to call themselves as they wish or feel or anything else like that.
Lets ignore the facts and all the proofs (archeological, historical, linquistic, the ancient testimonies and documents etc) and lets make a speculation. I repeat and underline it : the following is just a speculation. Lets say that ancient Macedonians weren’t Greeks by blood (omemon). Even if they weren’t Greeks by blood, the ancient Macedonians stand up for their right to self-definition as Greeks. They were recognised as Greeks by their friends and enemies.But, the most important and value, they were ACCEPTED as Greeks by the Greeks (ethical legalization). For 2.500 years and more they were Greeks. Now days, happens this paradoxy: someone tries to abolish the right the ancient Macedonians earned, in the name of his right. And i ask you this: is that ethical? Is that democratical? Is that humanistic? Is that acceptable? Is that FYROMians right? Does FYROMians have the right to deny to the ancient Macedonians the right to self-definition? Of course not! Ancient Macedonians are Greeks and nobody is legalized to dispute it. Nobody has the right to doubt it. Especially for his interest. FYROMians don’t argue for the truth. Argue gor their own benefit and profit. They don’t care about the human rights. They trample underfoot them. And with them the rights of the ones they claim to honor and serve.It is a massive and terrible hypocricy.

Thank you very much for your time.

Θεόφιλος Κυριακίδης says:

Κατ’ αρχάς, δέν πρόκειται περί «αλυτρωτικής συμπεριφοράς» τών σκοπιανών, αλλά ΕΠΕΚΤΑΤΙΚΗΣ συμπεριφοράς, καθ’ ότι ποτέ δέν υπήρξε δικό τους, ούτε είχαν ποτέ το παραμικρό δικαίωμα στό όνομα Μακεδονία σέ οποιαδήποτε μορφή καί άρα δέν τιθεται θέμα απελευθερώσεώς της.

Δεύτερον, τό όνομα Μακεδονία είναι αποκλειστικώς καί μονον ελληνικό καί δέν τό χαρίζομε σέ κανέναν Σλαύο, Βούλγαρο, Αλβανό ή οτιδήποτε άλλο.

Οι Σκοπιανοί έχουν όνομα καί αυτό είναι ΒΑΡΝΤΆΡΣΚΑ.

Τρίτον, εμείς οι ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ διεκδικούμε τό τμήμα τής Μακεδονίας τό οποίον προσωρινώς κατέχουν οι Σκοπιανοί καί οι Βούλγαροι σήμερα. Επίσης διεκδικούμε τήν Βόρειο Ήπειρο η οποία είναι μόνον ελληνική, καθώς καί τήν Ανατολική Θράκη, τήν Ίμβρο καί Τένεδο καί βεβαιως τό κατεχόμενο τμήμα τής Κύπρου πρέπει νά ελευθερωθή. Καί ακολουθούν καί άλλα.

Τέλος, νά πάψουν οι ΗΠΑ (δηλαδή οι κυβερνήσεις τους) νά συμπεριφέρωνται αλλαζονικώς καί σαν νά ανήκει ολόκληρη η γη σ’ αυτούς. Είναι απολύτως βέβαιο ότι ο αμερικανικός λαός δέν είναι εχθρικός απέναντι στούς Έλληνες, αλλά αντιθέτως τούς αγαπά. Όλα αυτά γίνονται διότι οι ΗΠΑ κυβερνώνται από τούς Εβραίους, οι οποίοι μισούν όλον τόν κόσμο καί προ πάντων μισούν θανασίμως τούς Ελληνες, διότι δέν αντέχουν τό συναίσθημα τής κατωτερότητος τό οποίον τούς διακατέχει.

P.Kalos says:

Let me firstly say thankyou, the site is very educational.

This blog has been interesting too, especially with some of the rhetoric and rubbish that came from that person George Kirov in October 2008, good to learn what angle these antagonists are taking, and help restore some objectivity to the statements made. Well done to WestClub4 for the quality contributions that followed, without turning to hate or insults.

Just some observations.
1) I found the following link on this very site interesting too.
http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2007/03/14/letter-from-fyroms-slavs-to-oliver-stone/

I found it interesting to see the statistics with the population exchanges that followed post the fall of the Ottomans. Showing a reduction of Muslims, but also the majority of Greek inhabitance in the region that became Macedonia (Greek), both pre-post this period. In other words, could it be true that some FYROM people were counted as the Bulgarians in these statistics as they do have a Bulgarian Slav dialect and culture, showing that they were a minority, the Greeks were the majority in this region and hence liberated the area post the Ottomans.

1912 1926

Greeks 513,000 1,341,000
Muslims 475,000 2,000
Bulgarians 119,000 77,000
Various 98,000 91,000

2) The same antagonist that I’ve mentioned above said that Greece only existed for 100 years, clinging onto something not theirs. Q. Can someone with more knowledge of Greek history summarise the Hellenic/Greek history that spans several millenia in the Mediterranean?

3) I think also that ancient Macedonians attended the ancient Olympic games, having to prove their Greek origins to do this, if someone can comment on this as well as other historic proof of the Macedonian relationship to Greece, this would be great too.

Thankyou for allowing me to post this.
All the best.

AAnastasiaGR says:

Στο παρακάτω Αμερικανικό site γίνεται
δημοσκόπηση για το αν η Μακεδονία είναι Ελληνική.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/macedonia/TAAAAFN23PMGMJ147

Είναι πολύ απλό. Ούτε όνομα πρέπει να βάλετε, ούτε στοιχεία, ούτε τίποτα.
Μόνο πατάτε το Yes και μετά βλέπετε το μέχρι τώρα αποτέλεσμα.

dodoni says:

Γεια σας παιδιά.Μόλις σήμερα σας ανακάλυψα & είμαι κατενθουσιασμένη. Είναι τόσο εξαπλωμέμος ο ανθελληνισμός και μέσα στην πατρίδα μας την ίδια που αισθανόμαστε ενοχές όταν διεκδικούμε τα δίκαιά μας. Το εκπαιδευτικό μας σύστημα (είτε λόγω ανικανότητας, είτε σκοπούμενα) από τα πρώτα μας ακόμη χρόνια συντελεί σ΄αυτό.Πρέπει να είμαστε υπερήφανοι για την ιστορία μας και να βοηθούμαι και όσους μπορούμε προς αυτή την κατευθυνση. Εγώ προσωπικά προσπαθώ σε συζητήσεις που ανοίγω να ενημερώνω τους δοκησίσοφους του περίγυρού μου. Και μία παράκλιση: Μήπως από κάπου θα μπορούσα να πληροφορηθώ τις θέσεις και τα επιχειρήματα των Σκοπιανων? (και όχι τις κραυγές
που ακούμε και διαβάζουμε κατά καιρούς)

kon/nos says:

H MAKEDONIA THA XATHEI OTAN PAPSOUME EMEIS NA THN FONAZOUME. GIA AYTO SYNEXISTE ELLINES TIS MAKEDONIAS NA FONAZETAI PANTOU GIA THN MAKEDONIA.

kon/nos says:

PAIDIA EIMAI APO ALEXANDREIA HMATHIAS PRIN MIA BDOMADA EPISKEYTIKA THN IERI POLH MAS THN BERGINA GIA POLOSTI FORA EMATHA OTI PANO STA ANAKTORA BRETHIKAN KAI ALLA TO ANAKTORO EINAI POLY MEGALITERO XREIAZONTAI 3 PERIPOU XRONIA GIA NA OLOKLIROTHI H DOULEIA KAI TA EBRIMATA EINAI EKPLIKTIKA LENE. OPOIOS DEN EXEI PAEI XANEI

Boris says:

Vakova, head of Bardovsi clinic is cought lying to the Greeks!
rel="nofollow">

Roxane says:

Please,help find the photo pf Vasko Gligorijevic and UP-LOAD it!
Skopjie denies his existence!This is a very dangerous turn of events!Is his life in danger?

D-Mak says:

Νομίζω το πρόβλημα λύθηκε Νάσσο. Σε ευχαριστούμε για την υπενθύμιση.

Νάσσος says:

Καλησπέρα και συγχαρητήρια για τη σελίδα. Εξαιρετική δουλειά και μπράβο σας.
Θα ήθελα να με πληροφορήσετε τι γίνεται με τη περίπτωση του photobucket.
Μπαίνοντας εδώ http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/04/10/sun-of-vergina-a-greek-symbol κάποιες φωτογραφίες δεν εμφανίζονται. Εάν γραφτώ photobucket θα τις δω ή πρέπει να κάνω κάτι επιπλέον;

Ευχαριστώ

Αποκάλυψη: Ο Πρωθυπουργός των Σκοπίων σε τρομοκρατική οργάνωση!

Δημοσίευμα στο Ιντερνετ «φωτογραφίζει» το αρχηγείο του ενώ η Αμερικανική Αντιτρομοκρατία δικαιώνεται.

Στο Memorial Institute (MIPT) των Ηνωμένων Πολιτειών στα πλαίσια υποστήριξης των προσπαθειών αντιμετώπισης της τρομοκρατικής λαίλαπας, δημιουργήθηκε ένα, πολύ καλά ενημερωμένο, διεθνές αρχείο τρομοκρατικών οργανώσεων, αλλά και των μελών που τις στελεχώνουν, κάτι που αποδείχθηκε σπουδαίο βοήθημα σε όλους τους ερευνητές παγκοσμίως. Για περιοχές του κόσμου, με μεγάλο ιστορικό ταραχών και συγκρούσεων η πρωτοβουλία αυτή του MIPT βοήθησε αρκετά ώστε να ξεκαθαρίσουν τα πράγματα από άποψη τρομοκρατίας και να διαχωριστούν τρομοκρατικά, κινήματα από εθνικές απελευθερωτικές οργανώσεις αλλά και απλούς μαχητές. Έτσι και στη περίπτωση των Βαλκανίων με τη βοήθεια του γνωστικού αυτού αρχείου πολλά πράγματα ξεκαθάρισαν, όχι όμως όλα, σχετικά με τη δράση τρομοκρατικών ομάδων, ιδίως από τότε που κάποια έθνη-κράτη στα Βαλκάνια άρχισαν να χρησιμοποιούν επαναστατικές/τρομοκρατικές ομάδες προκειμένου να προωθήσουν τις δικές τους επιδιώξεις……………………………
Η συνεχεια στο Disaster Press

Boyan says:

There is not a SINGLE PROOF FOR EXISTENCE OF NON-SLAV IF NOT BULGARIAN ETHNIC MINOIRTY IN MACEDONIA.

NOT A SINGLE FACT, WRITTEN DOCUMENT OR WHATSOEVER TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF MACEDONIANS IN THE LAST 1500 YEARS OR SO.

THE DIRECTOR OF THE BULGARIAN NATIONAL MUSEUM OF HISTORY HAS DECLARED AN AWARD OF 1 MILLION EUR FOR THE MAN WHO PRESENTS SUCH HISTORICAL PROOF. YET NOBODY OF THE MACEDONIAN HISTORIANS CLAIMED THE AWARD DESPITE THEY FABRICATE THOUSANDS OF “FACTS”!

JUST TWO SIMPLE FACTS:

THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF BULGARIA IS NAMED “SAINT KIRIL AND METODI” AND THE SOFIA UNIVERSITY IS NAMED “SAINT KLIMENT OCHRIDSKI”

THE FUNNY THING IS THAT IN MACEDONIA THEY ARE REVERSED :)))

AS FOR THE HELLENIC INHERITANCE IN MACEDONIA -- IT IS COMPLETE NONSENSE OF COURSE.

THERE ARE STILL MORE BULGARIANS LIVING ONLY IN SOLUN THAN GREEK-SPEAKING NATIVES IN MACEDONIA.

westclub4 says:

A message to all slavophone Macedonian Hellenes on either side of the border.

The slavophone ethnic Macedonian Greeks of the contemporary northern Greek province of Macedonia do not constitute of an either foreign or separate ethnic minority into that region, nor are they at all willing to play to the hands of barbarian Slav and Bulgar nationalisms either. Their history is one of struggle and sucrifice for Hellenism and for the great ideals, aspirations and values of our glorious and ancient Greek nation.

They consider themselves to be an indigenous and an also local Greek population of Hellenic Macedonia, which has been oppressed by the Slav and the Bulgar for many centuries and as a result of that oppression and occupation their initial Greek language altered. In particular, the language of many Macedonian Greeks got changed to what is a separate dialectal form of the western Bulgarian language, and still to this date many Macedonians speak that language –especially the elderly into some rural areas of the Hellenic Macedonian province.

The slavophone ethnic Macedonian Greeks north and south of the border have yet proved on many past occasions their uncontested Greekness. There were many good patriots among them in the recent years who fought for Greece and for Hellenism alongside with the rest of the Greeks. Indeed, the immense majority of the slavophone Macedonian Greeks to this date consider themselves to be Macedonian Greeks –and just that! They do not consider themselves to be either Macedonian Slavs or Bulgars. They feel Greek to the Bone too, exactly like the rest of the Hellenes.

They have shed their blood to free Macedonia off the yoke of the Ottoman Turks during the 19th and early-20th Centuries. In the past and in many instances, they resisted the Avars and the Bulgars, and also the south-Slavs. They fought fearlessly and relentlessly against the Bulgars and the Turks who had invaded their land in past and in recent times. They fought against Bulgaria and Turkey in the early 20th Century and they successfuly resisted the Bulgar Komitadjis’ (i.e. the Bulgarian ultra-nationalist bandits of Monarchists, Fascists and Nazi-collaborators) throughout the inter-war period and yet again during WWII. Indeed, they have fought on many occasions and in many instances against foreign rule and oppression, partition and exploitation of their land and of their people.

They have done so yet more recently when they took to the mountains and to the Macedonian highlands to join forces with the Greek-speaking majority of the ethnically Macedonian Greek people who were following the lead of the Communists and of the democratic labour and peasant resistance movement, in order to fight against foreign rule, oppression, exploitation and partition of their land mostly by the Nazis and their Bulgarian Fascist collaborators.

According to records of the Greek Communist-led resistance movement at the time it is clear that the immense majority of the slavophone Macedonian Greek people were fighting fearlessly against Fascism and ultra-nationalist Bulgarian oppression and alongside the Greek-speaking resistance rebels. In essence, they were not only fighting the Nazis but they were also fighting against Bulgaria’s reactionary geo-political aspirations and also against the prospective Bulgarian partition of Macedonia, which is also very significant.

So much dubious talk then about the pretty much ‘contested’ or ‘mixed’ national consience of the slavophone ethnic Macedonian Greek brothers and sisters of Hellenic Macedonia who were clearly neither ethnic Bulgars nor Slavs either.

Long live the slavophone ethnic Macedonian Greeks! Long live the slavophone Macedonian Hellenes!

Dimitrios says:

Dear Elias,

Thank you for your response, I appreciated it!

I agree with the “barbarian-definition” you propose. However, I guess a lot of people who are not familiar with it could feel offended by the use of the word.

On the matter of the “Hellenic Republic”, I think that it’s a more fictitious endeavour than anything else.
As long as we are not able to negotiate and protect our rights in the field foreign politics (see FYROM, Cyprus, Thraki etc.) and to have a better organised state (educational-system, military, economy etc.) nobody is going to take us serious, I’m afraid!
Thanks God, we have bloggers… 😉

Regards!

Dimitrios says:

Dear Elias,

Thank you for your response.

I agree with the “barbarian-definition” you gave.

On the matter of the “Hellenic Republic” however, I think that this is a more fictitious endeavour than anything else.
As long as we are not able to negotiate and protect our rights in the field foreign politics (see FYROM, Cyprus, Thraki etc.) and to have a better organised state (educational-system, military, economy etc.) nobody is going to take us serious, I’m afraid!
Thanks God, we have bloggers… 😉

Regards!

westclub4 says:

Dear George Kirov and ethnic Macedonian Hellenes of the north,

There is no such thing as an Albanian or Vlach ‘ethnic minority’ living in contemporary Greece these days, unless of course by that you mean the either Albanian or Romanian (there are also some Moldovan too) migrant workers and peasants who had only recently moved to Greece –that is, definitively after the collapse of the Stalinist Eastern Block.

We should always remember that if it were not for the either Vlachophone or Arvanitan Greeks contemporary Greece –quite probably, would have never been liberated from the barbarous Ottoman Turks. Indeed, if it were not for them and their heroic struggles against that barbarous and also dynastic foreign oppressor -i.e. the Turks of Ottoman times, they would have been here still to this date. It is true that most of Greeks who fought against the Turks on the great war of independence were originally of an Arvanitan Greek or a Vlach Greek historic origin and descent. They were definitively Greeks to the Bone back then as they are today their relatives and true descendants. Indeed, all Vlach and Arvanitan Greeks today are as good patriots as there has always been anyone Vlach and Arvanitan Greek forefather of ours.

By the same token, philopatria and kinship were the main characteristics of our nation and of all ancient Greek tribes as well, who lived even before them. That applies to all our common ancestors and predecessors that were once living throughout the Hellenic Peninsula -i.e. the Pelasgian Greeks of the old, ancient Thrakes and Illyrians, Paeones, Brygians, Dardanians, Macedonians, Epirotes and the rest of the Hellenes too. Arvanitan and Vlach Greeks have shed their blood many times in the past for the great cause of liberation as well as for the great ideals of Hellenism. This is clearly indicated by many sacrifices they did to assist to our cause and also by their passion and zeal with which they fought the foreign oppressor during the war of independence back in the 1820’s and 1830’s.

It is suggested that ethnicity and nationality is neither a matter of spoken language, nor is it only a matter of religion either. It is rather a matter of national self-conscience and determination of one self’s ethnic beliefs and aspirations. By the same token, many Vlachophone and Arvanitophone Greeks who live to the southern-Albanian province of Northern Epirus or to southern and southeast regions of FYROM today declare themselves to be ‘Greeks to the Bone’ on each and in every occasion, even though they hardly speak at all Greek anymore. The significant minority of ethnic Greeks which lives in the state of FYROM today mainly comprises of many Christian Orthodox Arvanitan Greeks of the eastern and northeastern regions and of Vlachophone Greeks as well as many more Greeks who declare themselves to be ‘ethnic Macedonians only’ that happen to be of an also ancient Macedonian Greek stock and origin, as well. To them add also many people who declare themselves ethnic Macedonians, as in opposition to being an either ethnic Bulgar or Slav. These Macedonian Greeks deserve human and communal rights. Nonetheless, the imperialist protectorate of FYROM fails to grand them any, at least for the time being.

I dare anyone who doesn’t feel at all Greek and who only feels an ‘ethnic Macedonian’ ask himself why most slavophone ethnic Macedonians who concurrently live out there in the north find it very insulting –to say the least, when someone calls them either Bulgars or south-Slavs? My simple guess is because they are neither Bulgars nor Slavs either. Then, it is plain and simple that they are ethnic Macedonians of the original and ancient Dorian Greek (i.e. Hellenic) ethnic stock who were always living at that area -at peace and alone- up until one black day the barbarian hordes of Avaric Slavs and Tataric Bulgars invaded, captured and occupied their glorious and historic Hellenic land.

Mind you -ethnic Macedonian brothers and sisters of the north- that this is the land of the glorious and ancient Macedonian Hellenes we are talking about. That is your land -my ethnic Macedonian brothers and sisters of the north- and, that is also our land, as well. That is then the land of the ancient Macedonian Hellenes who they might concurrently either speak Slav, which is also the language of the foreign oppressor (i.e. the tongue of the barbarian Avaro-Slav and of the Tataric Bulgar) or Greek, which is also the language of their historic, ancient and original forefathers as well as of their true ethnic Macedonian Greek ancestors.

For Macedonia and for Greece! For Greece and for Country! For Hellenism and for Justice for all of the Macedonian Hellenes north and south of the border!

Long live the forthcoming Hellenic Republic! Long live our ethnically slavophone Greek Macedonian brothers and sisters of the North!

George Kirov says:

The comments from west club 4 i am sorry to say but sounds like you have just copied & pasted some nonsense from another web page. Bravo!
Greece is not a democratic country they don’t recognise their minorities such as Macedonians, Turks, Vlachs, Jews, Gypsy, Albanians etc. Read your own history books they will tell you that Aegean Macedonia as occupied territories when Greece acquired over 50% of Macedonia in 1913. Please explain this to me. With the Macedonian issue we have been killed jailed expelled fined humiliated for saying we are Macedonians. All we ask is to be free to express to learn our Macedonian language, history & be what it is to be a proud Macedonian, never greek or another nationality. We do not want greek history or anything of it it’s fabricated & false anyway.

As for the comments from Dimitrios you really don’t make sense at all sorry. Read some real history books and they will explain to you that the so-called Greeks a young nation might i just stress again distinguished us Macedonians as barbarians therefore admitting that we (Macedonians) are different & distinct from the Greeks.

Judging by what you have said in your responses i have proven that you have no real idea whats going on.
Confused so called greeks with no solid or real argument. How can you be Macedonian & greek at th same time two very different people?

Long live our people united MAKEDONIJA.

nikolaos says:

george..i think you should read some really history books…because all the books you read untill now is a creation of titov and america.Nato…..look at your books just for this…what nationallity was kurillos and methodios in the years 820 a.c. who created the slavic language….i am so sorry my friend…you say you are proud of being a macedonian.I am so happy.i just take u as a greek.and u must know these people wasnt murdered because the said they were macedonians but because they spoke slavic.of course it is a big fault of diktator metaxas and i am so sorry about it.But you must know.I come from thessaloniki.the sister of alexander.Not more than 150 km from vergina.its star you have in your flag.and in these cities were lived my parents grand- and grand grand grandparents…and they were proud to be macedonians too..always spoke greek,,,as ancient macedonians..with the only difference dorian dialekt..Philip the 2 said to his son..my forfathers are heraclidians.your mothers sons from achilleas..you must have a god inside you.The name makedon means the one who is long.mak(μακρης) edon(εχων)…look at your proofs(1914) and look at mine(even b.c.)….so give a break

westclub4 says:

Dear Dimitrios,

Barbarian is indeed anyone who does not have a Greek culture. To ancient Greeks there only were two differing cultures at that time:

a) The rather despotic, authoritarian, tyrranical and autarchical culture of the many Barbarian tribes who’s tribal people were not a people consisting of Free Men (i.e. they were not ‘Civilians’) but they were only ‘subjects’ to a barbarous King or to an also barbarous tribal dynastic and despotic leader.

b) The other culture was that of the Greeks -i.e. they were not ‘subjects to a King’ but they were all ‘Equal and also Free Men’ (i.e. Civilians). They were taking part in the common affairs of their City or State. They had voting rights and could determine their destinies as Free Men. They were considering themselves as to have been equal to one another. They beleived in and also practiced participatory Democracy -that is, direct people’s power in ancient Greek.

Their leaders of the Greeks were elected and were also subject to immediate recall via regular direct and universal elections. Because most Greek Cities were of a relatively small size in terms of people they could have a system of direct democracy, which was far more progressive and democratic than any western-style bourgeois parliamentary democracy, to which we are used to in nowadays. In essence, the ancient Greek democratic system was similar to the democratic system of the Workers’ Councils of Petrogrand (1905) and of Russia (1917) or to that of the Paris’ Commune, France, 1871.

The very word barbarian has been in essence a rather cultural and an also political term in ancient Greece. Those foreign (and even Greek) tribes that were not capable to appreciate the benefits of democracy, nor to apply universal suffrage, free elections, liberty for all civilians and equality of all men were dubed to be Barbarians -i.e. non-Greek and hence foreign and deculturated, backward and primitive, as well.

That is also the meaning behind the term I use on my concurrent posts. Indeed, it is a cultural and an also political one. It has nothing to do with ‘race’ or ‘tribalism’. In particular, when I refer to the Slav and the Bulgarian political elites as barbarian who have subjagated and oppressed to this date the ancient ethnic Macedonian Greek people of the north, I only do so on the basis of their absolutist, despotic, tyrranical, authoritarian and also autocratic rule. Since they are not an open and a democratic society to this date, they still are barbarians and yet not Greeks.

Mind you that there are also many Greeks either by race or origin that are still considered to be Barbarians. Culturaly you cannot become a Greek if you don’t beleive in Democracy and also in Liberty and in Equality. By that token, many ancient Greeks considered King Philippe the Macedon to have been a barbarian, although he was of an indisputable Greek race and spoke Greek as his native and mother tongue. Culturaly (i.e. when it comes to politics) though he was not a Greek, since he was an absolute Monarch and, indeed, a tyrrant and also a dynastic autocrat and an authoritarian leader.

Hence, I do not use the word barbarian to denote someone or somebody who’s origins are not Greek. Practically, you can be a Greek even if you are of no Greek origin, at all. Indeed, a sub-Saharan African could easily qualify to become a proper Greek today even when none of his parents are Greek and even if he has no knowledge so far of the Greek language. He only needs to share ancient Greek values and ideals; That is, he only needs to have a thirst for knowledge and respect for the ideals of democracy, liberty and equality among many others things.

Hellenic values are not racist or either racialist pseudo-values. Hellenic values respect the free man, but only when he rises up as a cognitive and free human being, because it is only then that he ever really becomes a man! Hellenic values glorify the philopatria (i.e. to love and respect of your country), respect for the elders and for the ancient forefathers who have shed their blood to keep us free from barbarian rule and from foreign domination. Indeed, Hellenic values are against any backward and oppressive regime.

Hellenism is against all foreign tribalistic and tyrranical yokes. Indeed, we are against the tyrranies that are widespread throughout the history of mankind. We are against the eastern despotic cultures of the old or as we have rather more recently experienced it in the form of Feudalism, Stalinism, Fascism, Authoritarianism, absolute Monarchism, Oligarchism, Aristocratism, and so on. Hellenic values are incompatible with absolutism and with any form of totalitarianism yet, they are fully compatible with individualism and with the free and voluntary association of all men. We aspire to humanism, liberty, direct and participatory democracy and to the very notion of the ‘renessance of human kind’, as opposed to Pax American and to the neo-Imperialism and to the so-called ‘New World Order’ and to their lackeys in each and in every land!

Hellenism is not a rather new idea nor a plasmatic ideal of the later days, either. It is as old as the glorious ancient Greek cosmopolitismos. Hellenism is compatible with the free association of men. It aspires to a Commonwealth of Free Men, where cognitive choice and free will would eventually take the place of all unfairness and injustice. Where social hierarchies, exploitation, oppression and inequality will eventually collapse as a result of the epan-Hellenices of the human kind.

The forethcoming Hellenic Republic would not be an oppressive regime, either. We can liberate none from the yoke of exploitation and oppression and, indeed from the concurrent absolute barbarism against their own free will. The emancipation of the workers and of all Hellenic peoples in the Balkans, should be an act of themselves, otherwise it won’t be an act of emancipation at all. What we need is a mass movement of the exploited and also of the oppressed peoples throughout the Hellenic Peninsula, which will rise up from below -almost simultaneously- in each and in every part of the old Hellenic Peninsula. Only then it is possible for the Hellenic Republic to become a reality.

The Hellenic Republic will become the cultural vanguard of all oppressed and exploited peoples throughout the world, their true and sincere voice and also an assistant to the just cause for the liberation of mankind from the yoke of capital, profit, inequality, social injustice and social hierarchies. In other words, the Hellenic Republic will become the paradeigma for all mankind, the driving force for peace and prosperity, for cooperation and for solidarity, for emancipation, liberty and also for self-rule.

Long live the forethcoming Hellenic Republic! Long live the Commonwealth of the Free Peoples of the World! Long live the Commonwealth of the Voluntarily Associated Free Men!

For Macedonia and for Greece! For Hellenism and for the Hellenic Republic!

Dimitrios says:

@ westclub4

Thank you first of all, for sharing your thoughts so patiently with us! I appreciate them very much!
However, let me ask you a couple of questions.

How do you define the term barbarian? Isn’t it anachronistic to speak nowadays about barbarians by the means of not being or not having Greek heritage -- nobody refers anymore f.e., to black people with the insulting word “negro”?

Furthermore, how do you want to realise a “forthcoming Hellenic Republic”? What if the people of the particular countries aren’t interested at all to such an idea? Isn’t it a similar modern-day fiction of “world-power”, like communist once thought of?
Thanks again E.L.A.!

George Kirov says:

It is interesting reading such nonsense from you so called Greeks. A fabrication of the western world is recent times.
The so called nation “greece” has only existed for just over 100 years. An artificial country that is just clinging on to something thats not theirs seems to be a clueless cause. Judging on what you have written you greeks are primitive people goes to show you greeks are uneducated & unintelligent people with no real idea about us the real Macedonians.
We are fast rising on the world arena & i have travelled though Makedonija many times and am glad to say we are mobilising together to show what has really happened in our homeland Makedonija. United we stand united we are. The glory of Makedonija is only for us Macedonians and all that comes with it.

Looking forward to a response.

Evv says:

You don't even know what you're talking about. We are not scared of anyone of you because we simply know that the bit of land you want to name as Macedonia, does not actually excists. You should study some history before you post all these to this webside page. I mean,come on. It's just ends up being funny now.At least try to not be the most hellerious people we've ever seen…Do you even have any tourists coming to see your ''country''? And seriously, you're coming from nowhere. The bit you live in used to be the stables of Alexander. Study some history before you speak…

westclub4 says:

The same old story about deculturated Macedonians who spoke Slavic and about Voukephalas -i.e. Alexander’s famous horse, that was initially a Zastava automobile! Not again people, plz..

Dorian Greeks or Hellenes as they became known later on throughout the world were the ancient and the historic Macedonians. As simple as that.

P.S. Georgios Kyrou, don’t you think it is about time to learn how to spell your name correctly?

Imathia says:

Hello,

From my personal contact with slavs of FYROM i am not optimistic anything good could be out of this. These people have been lied, brain-washed, imposed a new ‘identity’ in late 19th century and…voilla you have the perfect brain-washed machines. People who are the worst type of RACISTS, hatefull against all their neighbours and NOTHING, no amount of Truth is going to stop them being the sheeps that buy everything from their ex-communist MASTERS. Worst thing is that the Greek community in FYROM has been faded due to the massive Slavicization of Greeks from the Yugoslav and Fyromian state later. I read the article about Fyromians claim Jesus and i was shocked. FYROM and its people are both a DISGRACE to the civilised world.

George Kirov says:

I am a proud Macedonian from Lerin & the other half from Voden current day Greece. Greece occupies just over 50% of Macedonia.
Too long have we been treated wrongly, too long have we been oppressed, its time now that we speak up to what has been done to us. I am related or from the same race as people from the republic of Macedonia, Macedonian minority in Bulgaria & macedonian minority in albania.
This site makes no sense because the position of greece in regards to macedonia changes always & has changed significantly over the years from no such thing as macedonia to macedonia being greek.
But the real macedonians have never changed their story we are & always have been macedonian no one can change that.
Greece is scared that the truth is coming out & is haunting them.

Thats all from me.
Will you post this??
Maybe you won’t.
Good day.

basil says:

Hello,
just used a link to your site in a debate that started (and is ikely to continue) on a irrelevant site.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikolaeftimov/2314961944/?addedcomment=1#comment72157608183466754
and thought that it would be usefull to let you know it.

the way the debate was provoked wasn’t formal either. but it seems to prove very revealing (and dissapointing) of the in debth penetration of FYROM’s propaganda to younger and -supposedly- open minded, more educated and informed people.

with thanks and congrats for creating and maintaining this site updated as well as and for monitoring FYROM’s propaganda and instant responding to it.

frankly,
basil

Dimitrios says:

Could you please check the following thread:

history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2007/10/02/evidence-of-the-greek-ethnicity-of-ancient-macedonians/

It’s just not readable at all, something must be wrong with the page-design.

Thanks.

Dimitrios says:

Geia xara!

Do you have any information that Pavlos Voskopuolos (“Vinozito” party) is paid bei the “SOROS FUNDATION” or from FYROMIAN sources?

I couldn’t find anything about this topic in this site…
Yesterday there was a big page-wide article in the NZZ (Switzerland), which was obviously written in a very pro VINOZITO / FYROM style (“The not recognised “macedonien” minority demands cultural rights from Athens…”, NZZ 18./19.10.2008).
In the German speeking part of Europe, the FYROMIAN lobby is still very strong!

Where do I find information on this topic, how fast are you able to produce some information?

Please keep me informed about this matter!

Thanks.

westclub4 says:

We shall not call our ethnic brothers of the north ‘names’. Neither should we call them Bulgarians or south-Slavs, nor Serbs or anything else other than Macedonians unless they want us to or state they feel otherwise. Most of them see Bulgarians and Serbs with much detest. They view them as their former oppressors and as potential enemies and future occupiers of their land. They consider them as usurpers of their previous state of affairs and of their indigenous Macedonian dynasties.

In particular, they view the tataric-Bulgarians historically speaking as foreigners and migrants, whereas politically they see them as the ‘evil patrons’ of their country. Today, they only feel Macedonian, which is different from (and also opposed to) feeling just Slav or Macedonian Slav.

In addition to that, it seems as if the only thing they share with the Slavs in nowadays is the contemporary mixed Slavic language (or the ‘ntopika’, as they call of their own particular linguistic idiom) that they speak, which they use daily ever since early medieval period; That is, for many consecutive centuries, indeed.

Moreover, they differ both to the Slavs and to the Bulgarians. In particular, they consist of slavophone ethnic Macedonians and, yet, of some Bulgarians and few south-Slavs (and Serbs), as well. During the many centuries of their co-living together and sharing of their land with them (be it either forced or otherwise), they were eventually subjected to a non-significant ethnic mixture with the Slavs and with the Bulgarians, which it affected heavily on the original Greek language that they used to speak before the raids and the Slavic invasions –though it fortunately had a much lesser impact upon their Macedonianism and their true feelings in respect to ethnicity, nationality and also culture.

Indeed, some of them feel as they are truly the direct descendants of ancient Macedonians and we have no particular reason to object to it. As a matter of fact, it is true that the same Macedonian Greeks who were living in southern Macedonia in the past were once also living in the northern Macedonia, as well. Moreover, there is a problem at present when they state that they feel Macedonian as opposed to being Macedonian Greek too, which definitively was the nationality of their real forefathers, i.e. the ancient Macedonians, who were ‘Greek to the bone’.

Nonetheless, the extent to which they have become mixed with the Bulgarians and with the south-Slavs is not yet significant, since those of them who today feel ethnic Macedonian are considerably more than those who feel either Slavic or Bulgarian. There is also an ethnic minority of Vlachophone Greeks and of many Christian-Orthodox native Albanian speakers (i.e. old Christian-Orthodox Arvanitan Greeks, which they today live in the western and in the southwestern parts of the FYRO-Macedonian land), which is also significant in numbers and that particular fact should not be forgotten either.

Therefore, to call this predominantly slavophone and ethnically mixed people with foreign and with insulting names is neither fair to them (that is, ethnically and historically speaking) nor it enables us to cater for –and, assist to, their immediate and direct re-hellenicisation. This particular strategy for the cultural re-hellenicisation of that historic and ancient Greek land should have been our prime and ultimate goal as a nation, ever since the demise of the former Yugoslavia –if not before. That should be our contemporary national strategy too, if we do not wish to have a Greater Bulgaria or, indeed, a Slavic nation-state to the north of Greece in the near future.

The latter scenario shall not be viewed as the lesser evil of those two either, because a hostile Slavic nation-state to the north of Greece, which would potentially have or develop strong political ties with either Bulgaria or Serbia (or with both of these states), would pose a serious threat to Greece and to her socio-economic and her financial interests in the whole region.

Moreover, it is very irresponsible on our behalf to let ‘few of our own’ –that is, mostly few nationalist maniacs and religious relics, along with some fanatics and lunatics, which also suffer from significant anti-Slavic syndromes and complexes, to continue irritating our confused ethnic Macedonian brothers of the north and, that way succeeding only in ‘sparing’ them either to the Bulgarians or the Serbs. We should be reminded that our confused slavophone ethnic Macedonian brothers and sisters of the north are ‘not for sale’, nor are they for the exchange of any kind.

Hence, we do not wish ‘to trade them’ with anything and at any cost, yet we do wish to invite them to true Macedonianism, which is none other (historically speaking, that is) than Hellenism and Greekness. That is our concurrent objective and that should have been the absolute Greek position ever since they gained the so much contested ‘national’ independence and sovereignty of their country as ethnic Macedonians back in early 1990’s.

Indeed, what we need today is to explain to them patiently that they are not Bulgarians. That they are neither south-Slavs nor Serbs or anything closely related to that either, and not the other way around. That is absolutely necessary today and will be so till the day that ethnic Macedonians of the north will exactly feel likewise to their ancient and historic forefathers; That is, also feeling Macedonians and Greeks at the same time, and nothing else or anything other than that simple historic fact.

Elias L.A.
Athens, Greece.

westclub4 says:

Sooner or later, there will come a time when the slavophone macedonians will find again their true and historic roots. They will understand that from the moment they really consider themselves as macedonians, they have greater connection with the ancient macedonian greeks and the historic original hellenic tribe of the makedones than with any of the avaro-slavs, the tatars, the bulgars, that is the ‘turks of the north’ and, indeed, with any of the various ‘baltic barbarians’, the finns, the huns and/or the mongols.

Today, it is at stake the fact that the slavophone macedonian people are not bulgarians. Indeed, they never were trully bulgarians. To the extend that they still speak the west-bulgarian dialect, which they call ‘macedonian’ or ‘ntopika’, they remain a forcefully bulgaricized people of mixed and of quite obscure ethnc origin; that is, they are certainly a new people of a mixed indegenous ionian greek, hellenic (ie. dorian) macedonian, graeco-paeonean and graeco-dardanian and/or graeco-illyrian indegenous ancient stock, which to a larger or to a lesser extend became mixed with the raidding avaro-slavic, turranic/tataric and/or baltic/nordic barbarian tribes, that invaded the central and the southern hellenic peninsula almost a thousand years after the establishment of Alexander the Great’s ancient macedonian greek empire.

Hence, they too have the right to claim the ancient macedonian greeks as their forefathers and glorious ancestors. By the same token, they too have each and every historic right to call themselves macedonians or ethnic macedonians whenever they choose to do so, given of course that they do not counterpose their particular macedonian ethnicity to their historic, true and only, greek macedonian national identity or nationality, which should prevail at all costs over their more or less ‘esoteric’ ethnic -and, thus not national- ‘self proclamation’.

The ethnic macedonians of FYROM, of Bulgaria and of Greece should be given the right to self-proclaim themselves, individually and collectively, as macedonians in order to distinguish themselves and their peculiar linguistic community from the bulgarian speakers and from the bulgarian nationals. Their long and historic route towards the Ithake of their own, towards hellenism and through that towards the correct use of the ancient and historic ethnic self proclaiming notion of true macedonianism and thus, of greekness- will conclude successfully, only as soon as they find a permanent way out of the foreign to them ‘greater bulgarian’ reactionary dreams or of any foreign to them today indeed, pan-slavic and thus reactionary and nationalistic aspirotions of their slavophone neighbouring countries.

The slavophone macedonians are not bulgarians, nor they are serbs or slavs. They are the slavophone macedonians of a peculiar historic ethnic macedonian stock and of an indegenous ancient macedonian greek original people, which throughout all those centuries of foreign roman, avaro-slavic, bulgarian, otthoman and yugoslavic occupations and throughout all the successive waves of foreign and hostile invasions, raiddings and lootings, they have finally developed a quite embarrassing and also a peculiar slavophonea, which -unlike their original greek macedonian ethnic brothers and sisters who managed to retain their original greek language up untill nowadays, they nonetheless managed not to loose their distinct to bulgarian or, indeed, distinctive to the south-serbian original ethnic and historical national consciousness.

Therefore, Greece should welcome all the ethnic macedonians of today -that is, the slavophone macedonians who feel descendants of the ancient and historic macedonian greeks of the old- and agree to re-impose them the glorious pantheon of modern and of everlasting hellenism. Greece should once again accept and incorporate those ethnic macedonians to the more contemporary Hellenic Republic and thus, to the historic continuous of world greekness and of the worldwide hellenic cosmopolitismos.

Elias L.A
Athens, Greece.

Elias Leon Assim says:

It is unfortunate that many neo-greeks make the mistake to consider the slavophone-Macedonians of FYROM simply as Bulgarians. Historically it is a mistake. The greek-speaking inhabitants of ancient Macedonia, Paeonia and Dardania were not completely assimilated ethnically by the raiding proto-bulgarians and the invading avaro-slavs. It is quite possible that most lost their original greek language but they were not all slaughtered or evicted. The majority of the ancient greek poplulations remained there and got enslaved to the barbarian tribes. True, their language got slavicized but, as we see today, their national consiousness did not alter significantly. Maybe, to the extend that they lost their confidence and awareness of being of ancient greek origin themselves, to the degree that most of them were oblidged to get their names changed to slavic or bulgarian and got mixed and blented and/or interbred with the raiding proto-bulgarian and avaro-slavic barbarians.

They, nonetheless, have retained their confidence that they are not bulgarian, nor serb, nor turkish. Quite unfortunately though for the rest of the ethnic greeks in the hellenic peninsula, they neither feel greek and despite of the fact that -up to a certain extend- most of them, though not all, should have. The Fyro-Macedonians of today have a significantly strong feeling that they are just an indegenous ‘slavophone’ Macedonian people of mixed ancient macedonian, bulgarian and avaro-slavic ethnic origins. Especially those who proudly call themselves today ‘macedonians’, ‘ethnic-macedonians’ or even ‘slavic-macedonians’, do so in order to distinguish themselves from the macedonian-bulgars, the macedonian-serbs and the macedonian-albanians, whom with they maybe cohabit the same land of FYRO-Macedonia, but -in essense- they all belong to different ethnic groups, quite distinctive from eachother and from themselves.

What most Fyrom-macedonians believe today about themselves is that they are a people quite dinstictive to the turks, and also very different to their neighbouring avaro-slavs and tatars of the ‘enslaved’ ancient Thrake, which today lays within the boundaries of modern-day Boulgaria. They feel very different to the scytho-sarmatian ‘slavs’; that is to the serbo-croats. They also feel that they differ very much from the graeco-latin speaking people of the albanians; they hold that they differ significantly from the latin-speaking romanians and roma peoples of the balkans. Equally, they feel that are different from the neo-greeks of the aegean-macedonia and south-east thrake of modern-day Greece.

Moreover, the reason which makes them today feel different from the neo-greeks is that the majority of the population into the northern greek regions consists of Pontians and Mikrasiates, who are not of local origin to the land which the ”Macedonians” consider their own. To the extend they strongly feel that they directly discent from the ancient macedonians -even if, some of them do actually aknowledge that the invading boulgarians and slavs have left their traces upon them as well- moreover, they have a strong argument to support the idea that they are not of pure avaro-slavic (ie. serbo-croat) or proto-tataro-slavic (ie. boulgarian) national stock. On the contrary, they hold that they are the ‘only’ and also the ‘original’ macedonians of today, simply because -on the other side- the neo-greek inhabitants have come mostly from Asia Minor, as recently as in the early-1920’s.

Hence, they have a great difficulty to accept the neo-greeks as their ethnic, true and historic brothers. Quite mistakenly though, they see modern-day Greece as a potential future threat. As a country of Asia Minor peoples’, who all those years occupies more than half of their ‘own’ historic lands; that they should sometime soon in the future liberate their brothers and sisters in the aegean macedonia, who are still ‘enslaved’ to the Greeks of Asia Minor and to the Pontians of the Caucasus.

However, the more they get separated to -and, also manage to distinguish themselves from- Serbs and Bulgarians alike, they get closer to their historic and original ancient tribal roots, which evidently -whether they want it or not- was, is and will always be, Greek. That is why we should also find soon enough a common ground with the slavophone Macedonians of FYROM, and not sell them so easily to the anti-historical -and, indeed to the quite reactionary, Bulgarian and/or Serb propaganda.

Elias Leon Assim,
Athens, Greece.

Pascali says:

Hi fellow Greeks and enthnic Macedonian who speak Greek and belong to Greece.

Congratulations on a great web-site, i will donate money to you to help continue this great web-site.

Question:
Why does the FYROM history of macedonian web-site appear on google first and not yours?? Is it a case of money?

My mother is from Florina and has always spoken Greek and remembers very clearly the Bulgarians in Greece. It’s very simple, these people from FYROM (alot of who where in Greece before WWII) supported the Bulgarians and communism. Due to the fall of communism they have realised they are left with nothing and would now like to re-claim what they lost….correction LEFT in Greece. Too late and bad-luck. But I must confess my wife is from FYROM and I would like to say that it is the FYROMIANS from overseas, mainly Austrlia and Canada who are causing and supporting this propaganda. In general they are good people and it’s not their fault they are being BRAIN WASHED OR WERE BRAINWASHED.

Yia

Macedonia = Greece

Μινα says:

Pascali, the fyrom site appears first in google probably because it has more hits. We shouldn't clic on "monkey-donia" websites, as they appear first on google this way.

unitedinhell says:

hail ellines!

i went through the forum a few months ago,and stumbled upon old news papper articles,which are re-printed by the skopje propagandists,they have erased the term bulgarian and have added the word macedonian!the news pappers are from like 60 or 80years ago,but there propaganda has not boundries!

pls let me know where they are posted!

thanks!

admin says:

Yparxei link gia Facebook sto deksi side tou blog, pros ta kato, mazi me ola ta alla links.

Makedonas says:

Paidia, balte kai ena link gia na sas kanoume add sto Facebook

efi says:

http://www.esnips.com/web/Knigi-i-citati

Damianakis says:

Κρητική παραδοσιακή χειροποίητη κιλότα, Αγία Βαρβάρα Μοναφατσίου.
Έτσι για να μην ξεχνιόμαστε!
http://www.kilota.gr

sxetika me...... says:

mporeis na mou peis ti einai auto? mou to esteile simera mia skopiani

http://www.imagebam.com/image/69ca668910666

respect the history says:

Εκανα ενα βιντεο σχετικα με τα στοιχεια που βρηκα απο την αναρτηση σου “The slavs of fyrom are bulgarians and they can’t hide it”

ηθελα να στο πω για να μη θεωρηθεεί αντιγραφή ή κλεψιά

ευχαριστώ

rel="nofollow">