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	<title>Comments on: Skopje&#8217;s Uneducation System and the Good Professor Čepreganov</title>
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	<link>http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/skopjes-uneducation-system-and-the-good-professor-cepreganov/</link>
	<description>Macedonian Online Journal focusing on the History of Macedonia through ages  - Ιστολόγιο που εστιάζεται στην Ιστορία της Μακεδονίας μέσα στους αιώνες</description>
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		<title>By: cobone1</title>
		<link>http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/skopjes-uneducation-system-and-the-good-professor-cepreganov/comment-page-1/#comment-10410</link>
		<dc:creator>cobone1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, who have had no history, need one. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called Macedonia for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation Macedonia and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, who have had no history, need one. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called Macedonia for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation Macedonia and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival. </p>
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		<title>By: cobone1</title>
		<link>http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/skopjes-uneducation-system-and-the-good-professor-cepreganov/comment-page-1/#comment-10409</link>
		<dc:creator>cobone1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/?p=841#comment-10409</guid>
		<description>Secound part of my comment 
 
Both Bulgarians and Macedonians, cannot establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions&#8212;mostly &#233;mi-gr&#233;s in the United States, Canada, and Australia&#8212;even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity.the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians.The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Secound part of my comment </p>
<p>Both Bulgarians and Macedonians, cannot establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions&mdash;mostly &eacute;mi-gr&eacute;s in the United States, Canada, and Australia&mdash;even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity.the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians.The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991 </p>
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		<title>By: cobone1</title>
		<link>http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/skopjes-uneducation-system-and-the-good-professor-cepreganov/comment-page-1/#comment-10408</link>
		<dc:creator>cobone1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2010 21:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/?p=841#comment-10408</guid>
		<description>Why do you Slavo-Bulgarians get amnesia when it comes to what Borza says about yout true ethnic backrounds.And put a magnifying glass on anything he says about the NonGreekness of Macedonians,,Borzas does nothing but contradict himself when it comes to the Macedonians and thier history.FYROMS history is NO mystery,your slavs and bulgarians  
 
Eugene N. Borza 
 
During medieval and modem times, Macedonia was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks.The emergence of a Macedonian nationality is an offshoot of the joint Macedonian and Bulgarian struggle against Hellenization. With the establishment of an independent Bulgarian state and church in the 1870s, however, the conflict took a new turn. Until this time the distinction between Macedonian and Bulgarian hardly existed beyond the dialect differences between standard eastern Bulgarian and that spoken in the region of Macedonia.Modern Slavs,  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you Slavo-Bulgarians get amnesia when it comes to what Borza says about yout true ethnic backrounds.And put a magnifying glass on anything he says about the NonGreekness of Macedonians,,Borzas does nothing but contradict himself when it comes to the Macedonians and thier history.FYROMS history is NO mystery,your slavs and bulgarians  </p>
<p>Eugene N. Borza </p>
<p>During medieval and modem times, Macedonia was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks.The emergence of a Macedonian nationality is an offshoot of the joint Macedonian and Bulgarian struggle against Hellenization. With the establishment of an independent Bulgarian state and church in the 1870s, however, the conflict took a new turn. Until this time the distinction between Macedonian and Bulgarian hardly existed beyond the dialect differences between standard eastern Bulgarian and that spoken in the region of Macedonia.Modern Slavs,  </p>
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		<title>By: Slavko</title>
		<link>http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/skopjes-uneducation-system-and-the-good-professor-cepreganov/comment-page-1/#comment-2026</link>
		<dc:creator>Slavko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/?p=841#comment-2026</guid>
		<description>Eugene Borza

 

Who Were (and Are) the Macedonians?

(Abstract from a paper presented at the 1996 Annual meeting of the American Philological
Association http://www.apaclassics.org/AnnualMeeting/96program.html)
 

This paper seeks to illuminate the problems associated with determining the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians (were

they Greek?), and to discuss the &quot;reverberations&quot; (to use the organizers&#039; term) of that issue in modem times. While the

1971 OED may regard the use of the word &quot;ethnicity&quot; as obsolete, no adequate substitute for the word exists. Indeed,

part of the discussion in my paper will, following the lead of Loring Danforth in his recent The Macedonian Conflict.-

Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World (Princeton 1995), attempt to illustrate some principles by which the &quot;ethnicity&quot;of the ancient Macedonians--and, perhaps, other ancient peoples--can be discussed in a coherent manner. 

 

Among the questions asked as appropriate to a methodological model of determining ethnicity are: 

 

     I. What were a people&#039;s origins and what language did they speak? From the surviving literary sources

     (Hesiod, Herodotus, and Thucydides) there is little information about Macedonian origins, and the

     archaeological data from the early period is sparse and inconclusive. On the matter of language, and despite

     attempts to make Macedonian a dialect of Greek, one must accept the conclusion of the linguist R. A.

     Crossland in the recent CAH, that an insufficient amount of Macedonian has survived to know what language

     it was. But it is clear from later sources that Macedonian and Greek were mutually unintelligible in the court

     of Alexander the Great. Moreover, the presence in Macedonia of inscriptions written in Greek is no more

     proof that the Macedonians were Greek than, e.g., the existence of Greek inscriptions on Thracian vessels

     and coins proves that the Thracians were Greeks.

 

     II. Self-identity: what did the Macedonians say or think about themselves? Virtually nothing has survived

     from the Macedonians themselves (they are among the silent peoples of antiquity), and very little remains in

     the Classical and Hellenistic non-Macedonian sources about Macedonian attitudes.

 

     III. What did others say about the Macedonians? Here there is a relative abundance of information from

     Arrian, Plutarch (Alexander, Eumenes), Diodorus 17-20, Justin, Curtius Rufus, and Nepos (Eumenes),

     based upon Greek and Greek-derived Latin sources. It is clear that over a five-century span of writing in two

     languages representing a variety of historiographical and philosophical positions the ancient writers regarded

     the Greeks and Macedonians as two separate and distinct peoples whose relationship was marked by

     considerable antipathy, if not outright hostility.

 

     IV. What is the nature of cultural expressions as revealed by archaeology? As above we are blessed with an

     increasing amount of physical evidence revealing information about Macedonian tastes in art and decoration,

     religion, political and economic institutions, architecture and settlement patterns. Clearly the Macedonians

     were in many respects Hellenized, especially on the upper levels of their society, as demonstrated by the

     excavations of Greek archaeologists over the past two decades. Yet there is much that is different, e. g., their

     political institutions, burial practices, and religious monuments.

 

I will argue that, whoever the Macedonians were, they emerged as a people distinct from the Greeks who lived to the

south and east. In time their royal court--which probably did not have Greek origins (the tradition in Herodotus that the

Macedonian kings were descended from Argos is probably a piece of Macedonian royal propaganda)--became

Hellenized in many respects, and I shall review the influence of mainstream Greek culture on architecture, art, and literary

preferences. 

 

Finally, a took at contemporary Balkan politics. The Greek government firmly maintains that the ancient Macedonians

were ethnic Greeks, and that any claim by the new Republic of Macedonia (The Former Yugoslav Republic of

Macedonia) to the name &quot;Macedonia&quot; and the symbols of ancient Macedonia is tantamount to an expropriation of Greek

history. Moreover, it is claimed that there is no such thing as a distinct Slavic Macedonian identity and language separate

from Bulgaria and Serbia. 

 

I shall review the evidence for the existence of a modern Macedonian ethnicity with reference to my recent work in a

Macedonian ethnic community in Steelton, Pennsylvania. Both the gravestones in a local cemetery and U.S. census reports

from the early twentieth century provide evidence that emigres from Macedonia who lived and died in Steelton in the early

twentieth century considered themselves to be distinct from their Serbian and Bulgarian neighbors. 

 

I shall conclude with a summary showing how the present conflict between Greeks and Macedonians in the Balkans is

characterized by both sides reaching back to antiquity to provide an often false historical basis to justify their respective

modem positions: the theme of &quot;reverberations&quot; as mentioned by the organizers of the panel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eugene Borza</p>
<p>Who Were (and Are) the Macedonians?</p>
<p>(Abstract from a paper presented at the 1996 Annual meeting of the American Philological<br />
Association <a href="http://www.apaclassics.org/AnnualMeeting/96program.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.apaclassics.org/AnnualMeeting/96program.html</a>)</p>
<p>This paper seeks to illuminate the problems associated with determining the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians (were</p>
<p>they Greek?), and to discuss the &#8220;reverberations&#8221; (to use the organizers&#8217; term) of that issue in modem times. While the</p>
<p>1971 OED may regard the use of the word &#8220;ethnicity&#8221; as obsolete, no adequate substitute for the word exists. Indeed,</p>
<p>part of the discussion in my paper will, following the lead of Loring Danforth in his recent The Macedonian Conflict.-</p>
<p>Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World (Princeton 1995), attempt to illustrate some principles by which the &#8220;ethnicity&#8221;of the ancient Macedonians&#8211;and, perhaps, other ancient peoples&#8211;can be discussed in a coherent manner. </p>
<p>Among the questions asked as appropriate to a methodological model of determining ethnicity are: </p>
<p>     I. What were a people&#8217;s origins and what language did they speak? From the surviving literary sources</p>
<p>     (Hesiod, Herodotus, and Thucydides) there is little information about Macedonian origins, and the</p>
<p>     archaeological data from the early period is sparse and inconclusive. On the matter of language, and despite</p>
<p>     attempts to make Macedonian a dialect of Greek, one must accept the conclusion of the linguist R. A.</p>
<p>     Crossland in the recent CAH, that an insufficient amount of Macedonian has survived to know what language</p>
<p>     it was. But it is clear from later sources that Macedonian and Greek were mutually unintelligible in the court</p>
<p>     of Alexander the Great. Moreover, the presence in Macedonia of inscriptions written in Greek is no more</p>
<p>     proof that the Macedonians were Greek than, e.g., the existence of Greek inscriptions on Thracian vessels</p>
<p>     and coins proves that the Thracians were Greeks.</p>
<p>     II. Self-identity: what did the Macedonians say or think about themselves? Virtually nothing has survived</p>
<p>     from the Macedonians themselves (they are among the silent peoples of antiquity), and very little remains in</p>
<p>     the Classical and Hellenistic non-Macedonian sources about Macedonian attitudes.</p>
<p>     III. What did others say about the Macedonians? Here there is a relative abundance of information from</p>
<p>     Arrian, Plutarch (Alexander, Eumenes), Diodorus 17-20, Justin, Curtius Rufus, and Nepos (Eumenes),</p>
<p>     based upon Greek and Greek-derived Latin sources. It is clear that over a five-century span of writing in two</p>
<p>     languages representing a variety of historiographical and philosophical positions the ancient writers regarded</p>
<p>     the Greeks and Macedonians as two separate and distinct peoples whose relationship was marked by</p>
<p>     considerable antipathy, if not outright hostility.</p>
<p>     IV. What is the nature of cultural expressions as revealed by archaeology? As above we are blessed with an</p>
<p>     increasing amount of physical evidence revealing information about Macedonian tastes in art and decoration,</p>
<p>     religion, political and economic institutions, architecture and settlement patterns. Clearly the Macedonians</p>
<p>     were in many respects Hellenized, especially on the upper levels of their society, as demonstrated by the</p>
<p>     excavations of Greek archaeologists over the past two decades. Yet there is much that is different, e. g., their</p>
<p>     political institutions, burial practices, and religious monuments.</p>
<p>I will argue that, whoever the Macedonians were, they emerged as a people distinct from the Greeks who lived to the</p>
<p>south and east. In time their royal court&#8211;which probably did not have Greek origins (the tradition in Herodotus that the</p>
<p>Macedonian kings were descended from Argos is probably a piece of Macedonian royal propaganda)&#8211;became</p>
<p>Hellenized in many respects, and I shall review the influence of mainstream Greek culture on architecture, art, and literary</p>
<p>preferences. </p>
<p>Finally, a took at contemporary Balkan politics. The Greek government firmly maintains that the ancient Macedonians</p>
<p>were ethnic Greeks, and that any claim by the new Republic of Macedonia (The Former Yugoslav Republic of</p>
<p>Macedonia) to the name &#8220;Macedonia&#8221; and the symbols of ancient Macedonia is tantamount to an expropriation of Greek</p>
<p>history. Moreover, it is claimed that there is no such thing as a distinct Slavic Macedonian identity and language separate</p>
<p>from Bulgaria and Serbia. </p>
<p>I shall review the evidence for the existence of a modern Macedonian ethnicity with reference to my recent work in a</p>
<p>Macedonian ethnic community in Steelton, Pennsylvania. Both the gravestones in a local cemetery and U.S. census reports</p>
<p>from the early twentieth century provide evidence that emigres from Macedonia who lived and died in Steelton in the early</p>
<p>twentieth century considered themselves to be distinct from their Serbian and Bulgarian neighbors. </p>
<p>I shall conclude with a summary showing how the present conflict between Greeks and Macedonians in the Balkans is</p>
<p>characterized by both sides reaching back to antiquity to provide an often false historical basis to justify their respective</p>
<p>modem positions: the theme of &#8220;reverberations&#8221; as mentioned by the organizers of the panel.</p>
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