Is Alexander the Great Greek?

Alexander the Great

Alexander the Great

Alexander III was born in 356 BC in Pella, capital at the time being of the Macedonian kingdom. He was son of the Macedonian king Philip II and Olympias, princess of Molossians in Epirus.

The Macedonian Royal House

The Macedonian royal house was called “Argeads” or “Temenidae“. According to the tradition, the founder of the royal house Perdiccas – even if the name of the founder differs in reference with the ancient source used – along with his brothers, the “Temenidae” came to the place called Macedonia from the Greek city of Argos. These Temenidae were descendants of Heracles, through Temenus, thus they were called also ‘Heracleids‘.

Since the time of Alexander I, who was better known as the “Philhellene“, Macedonian kings participated in Olympic games, which as we all know only Greeks could take part. The Argive origin of the Macedonian royal house was well-attested and widely believed both from Macedonians, as well as the rest of Greeks. Rifles like the political intricasies of Demosthenes against Philip is the tenuous exception to the general rule.

Naples Mosaic

Philip II, father of Alexander, was son of the Macedonian king Amyntas III and Eurydice, a Lyncestian princess. Lyncestians were incorporated earlier to Molossians, hence we could find them in ancient sources [1] as ‘Molossian Ethne’ or as Lyncestian Macedonians. A strong Illyrian influence can be recognised in the nearby Lyncestian kingdom but their royal house was widely believed in the ancient world to be descedants of the Greek Bacchiades coming from Corinth. Eurydice was daughter of a Lyncestian princess, daughter of Arrabaios, king of Lyngos and Sirras – a person shrouded in great darkness – since his ethnicity is obscure. There are conflicting theories which identify him either as Illyrian or as a native Lyncestian [2]. We can only conclude, Philip’s greek ancestry is proved beyond doubt by the traditions of the greek royal houses both in Macedon and Lyngos.

Molossian Royal House

Now we will analyze the lineage coming from the mother of Alexander, the Molossian Olympias. Her original name as a child was called Polyxena and then, at marriage, Myrtale; later in life she was also known as Olympias and Stratonice. [3] The name Olympias was given to her, according to the tradition, after her husband Philip won in Olympic games.The members of Molossian royal house , the so-called ‘Aeacidae‘ thought of themselves as descendants of Acchiles’ son, Neoptolemus and Andromache. They both took refuge in the area in the aftermath of Troy’s fall. Their son was Molossus, the founder of Molossians. Olympias herself, was daughter of Neoptolemus, king of Epirus and most likely of an Epirotan woman, Anasatia [4]. In the early 6th century, the tyrant of Sicyon Cleisthenes wished to find a suitable husband for his daughter Agariste. He invited “the best of the Greeks” in order to decide which one would marry his daughter. Among the Greek contestants was the Molossian king Alkon. Conclusion of the above is that the members of the Molossian royal house considered themselves as Greeks and were viewed as such by the rest of Greeks.

So far we have examined the lineages of the royal houses connected with Alexander. What remains is another crucial question to our issue. What did Alexander perceived himself to be?

From all the ancient sources we are receivers of the same message. Alexander the Great never missed a chance to verify his pride for his Greek ancestry. His parents had Greek origins. Alexander considered himself as a Greek. He spoke Greek. He grew up and was educated from famous Greek teachers like Aristotle and had as his favourite book Iliad of Homer. He worshipped the same gods like the rest of Greeks. He undertook and accompliced to a military campaign based on the long-term hostility between Greeks and Persians, as leader of the Greeks. Both he and his army spread the ancient Greek language and culture to the fringes of India and therefore Alexander has justifiably been used for centuries as a symbol of Greek civilisation.

[1] Hecataeus
[2] Kapetanopoulos ‘Sirras – Eurydice’
[3] Waldemar Heckel “Who’s Who In The Age Of Alexander The Great: Prosopography Of Alexander’s Empire” p. 181
[4] Favorinus ap. Jul Val 1.7 (frg. 49)

Comments
xClassicalGreekx says:

Easy there Nikolov Goran.

Giorgos says:

This is history. Not propaganda of a fasist coutry

dodoni says:

@ Angelique Says:
September 5th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

Hahaha very narrow-minded comment!!!
1. If Hellas which at that time was a Democratic republic with its city-states how come Alexander to be Greek and Macedonia to be part of Hellas???? Alexander was a king (Monarch) so his country was a monarchy. You should be an idiot not to see the difference!!
2. Why would anyone fight their own people???
3. As for your above mentioned issue regarding the Slavic people coming over, will you tell me what was happening to Greece at that time?? As far as I’ve read extensively, today’s Greek population is mixed with Turks and Egyptians starting from long time ago till….(the most recent migration of the prosfigi in 1921) about 2 million people…
But still WE DON’T HATE YOU, remember

Best Regards!!!

Hahaha very lack-on-basic-knowledge comment!!!
1. I didn’t know that the form of goverment is a racial criterion! Now, there was no state called Hellas. There were the Hellenic states. Some of the Hellenic states had ( f.e. Athens) democracy. Some others (f.e. Cyprus one king, Sparta two equal kings) monarcy. So, Alexander was no different f.e. than Leonida. You should be an idiot not to see the similarity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. Why wouldn’t anyone fight their own people????? Each Hellenic state wanted to be the leading power and to impose its dominance over the entire Greek world (see Athens, Sparta, Thebes etc etc).
In fact, we were very famous for the wars against each other in antiquity:
“Yet the Greeks are accustomed to wage wars, as I learn, and they do it most senselessly in their wrongheadedness and folly. When they have declared war against each other, they come down to the fairest and most level ground that they can find and fight there, so that the victors come off with great harm; of the vanquished I say not so much as a word, for they are utterly destroyed.Since they speak the same language, they should end their disputes by means of heralds or messengers, or by any way rather than fighting; if they must make war upon each other, they should each discover where they are in the strongest position and make the attempt there. The Greek custom, then, is not good; and when I marched as far as the land of Macedonia, it had not come into their minds to fight.”
Herodotus “The Histories”,7.9b.1 (The Persian general Mardonius, addressing to king Darius).

3. We are no Goebells’ followers. But it seems that you are. I suggest you to think your own nation before you make a reference to Turks or Egyptians or Marcians in the future. You see, you were under Ottoman dominance many many years more ( f.e. Athens was under Ottoman dominance from 1458 to 1833 and your capital from 1392 to 1912, 145 years more than Athens). So, you’d better think how “non Turk” you are. As for the Egyptians I have to inform you that Black Athena (the book you clearly refer to) is no8 in the top list of the worst books of the century. Pay attention where you invest(?) your time and money.

But we never hate you, remember
only feel pitty for you

Best Regards!!!

Florina says:

Hellas a “Democratic Republic”? A political institution determines Ethnicity?

Dont you people there have any common sense AT ALL??

So Leonidas, king of Sparta couldnt be Greek? Are you THAT foolish? Geez, Thats why FYROMians must be the Dumbest creatures ever walked on the surface of this planet.

Why would anyone fight his own people??? And you call that “argument”??? How old are you anyway? Can you count that high?

Florina says:

So a civil war CANNOT be taken place between a monarchy and a city-state????? Geez that must be the Dumbest post ever read. Let me guess…you are from FYROM!!!

So Epirotans (monarchy) fighting against Argives wasnt a civil war?? Have you even finished primary school?

Iskandaar says:

ahahahahaha…..EXACLY my friend…!!!
your point is very clear!!
if someone is blind (like FYROMIANS) its ok…cause hes unable/capable to see the truth
but if someone acts that he s blind…he s inflaming truth!!

Kitsos says:

Το ότι ο ΞΥΠΝΑΣ τόσες μέρες δεν έχει εμφανιστεί να πει τα ενδιαφέροντα που ήθελε
διότι τις προηγούμενες ημέρες δήθεν εμποδιζόταν από μένα,
δείχνει ότι το άτομο, γιά το μόνο που ενδιαφερόταν ήταν να ξεράσει την ανθελληνική
χολή του και όχι να συμβάλλει σε έναν διάλογο !!!
ΑΝΤΕ ΓΕΙΑ !!!

Nick Nikolas says:

καλα επι τουρκοκρατιας περνουσαν οι προσκυνημενοι και ξερεις ποιοι ησαν αυτοι. Εγω παντος εχω να τους επενθυμησω τον ορκο των ΠΛΑΤΑΙΩΝ. ΟΥ ΠΟΙΗΣΩΜΕΝ ΠΕΡΙ ΠΛΕΙΟΝΟΣ ΤΟ ΖΗΝ ΤΗΣ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑΣ.

Αν ο wakeup ηθελε να βγαλη ανθελληνικη χολη να εισαι συγουρος οτι την προοριζει για αυτους που εξεδιωξαν απο αυτον τον τοπο μεγαλους Ελληνες. Αισχυλο, Ευρυπιδη, Σοφοκλη, Πλατωνα, Αριστοτελη, Μιλτιαδη, Παυσανια, θεμηστοκλη, Κολοκοτρωνη, Μαντω, Μπουμπουλινα, Καποδηστρια για να μην παω πιο πισω την εποχη των τρωικων και αναφερω τον Παλαμιδη, τον Αχιλλεα, τον Αιαντα και Αλλους πολλους και ισως και τον ιδιο τον wake up υποψιαζομαι.

ΞΕΡΕΙΣ ΠΟΙΑ ΗΤΑΝ Η ΑΝΤΙΔΡΑΣΗ ΤΟΥ ΜΕΓΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ ΟΤΑΝ ΕΜΑΘΕ ΟΤΙ Ο ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣ ΕΞΕΔΩΣΕ ΤΑ ΒΙΒΛΙΑΤΟΥ; ΑΠΟ ΚΕΙ ΘΑ ΚΑΤΑΛΑΒΕΙΣ ΟΤΙ ΔΕΝ ΗΤΑΝ ΟΥΤΕ ΜΕΓΑΛΟΨΥΧΟΣ ΟΥΤΕ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΟΣ ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ.
Ο ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗ ΕΞΕΔΩΣΕ ΤΑ ΒΙΒΛΙΑΤΟΥ ΔΙΑ ΝΑ ΜΠΟΡΕΣΗ ΝΑ ΖΗΣΕΙ…ΒΛΕΠΕΙΣ ΔΕΝ ΗΤΑΝ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ.

ΑΝ ΔΕΝ ΕΧΕΙΣ ΔΙΑΒΑΣΕΙ ΑΥΤΟ ΔΙΑΒΑΣΕΤΟ. ΤΑ ΚΑΛΛΙΤΕΡΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΣΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ.http://nestanaios.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post.html

Kitsos says:

Νικ. θα συμφωνήσω περί προσκυνούντων και προσκυνημένων.
Αλλά μερικοί, τα ίδια που λένε γιά τον Μεγαλέξανδρο, τα λένε και γιά τον
Κολοκοτρώνη !
Φθάσαμε στο σημείο, έλληνες δάσκαλοι σε ελληνικά σχολεία της Ελλάδας και του
εξωτερικού -ευτυχώς λίγοι- σε ομιλίες τους στην επέτειο του ΄21, να πουν περίπου ότι οι
ραγιάδες …κακώς ξεσηκώθηκαν αφού υπό την οθωμανική κατοχή περνούσαν
καλά !!!
Εάν ο ΞΥΠΝΑ εμποδίστηκε από μένα να πει και άλλα που ήθελε στην
θεματική συζήτηση γιά τον Μέγα Αλέξανδρο, μπορεί να το κάνει και τώρα.
Αλλά έχω την εντύπωση ότι το μόνο που ήθελε ήταν να βγάλει ανθελληνική
χολή και τίποτα άλλο.
Περιμένω να δω ποιά άλλα πράγματα είχε να πει ώστε διαψευστώ !!!

Nick Nikolas says:

Φιλτατε WAKEUP, υπαρχουν πολλοι Ελληνες πολυ απογοητευμενοι απο τα ιδανικα των νεοελληνων. Ενας εξ αυτων ηταν και ο Ανδρεας Καλβος ο ποιητης. Οι φιλελληνες του εξωτερικου φανταζονται την Ελλαδα οπως την βλεπουν στα ονειρα τους. Οι Ελληνες του εξωτερικου την φανταζονται πολυ μεγαλη εως οτου ελθουν εδω και δου οτι δεν τους χωραει και τοτε επιστρεφουν στην νυν πατριδατους. Εχω την εντυπωση οτι εσυ εισαι τετοιος. Εγω καποτε τα καταφερα και εμεινα.

Κιτσο, δεν καταλαβαινω κατι. Λες οτι το συντακτικο του wakeup αλλαζει και ο αυντακτης ειναι ενας πληρωμενος ανθελληνας σκοπιανος.
αυτο εχω καταλαβει εγω. θελω να μου εξηγησης. Εγω νομιζω οτι ο wakeup ειναι ενας ελληνας απο τους πολλους απογοητευμενους ελληνες. ΑΥΤΟΙ ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΝΑ ΞΕΡΕΙΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΚΑΛΛΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ. ΑΥΤΟΙ ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΔΕΝ ΣΚΥΒΟΥΝ ΚΕΦΑΛΙ. ΑΥΤΟΙ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΠΟΥ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΩΣΑΝ ΤΗΝ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥ ΤΟΥΡΚΟΥΣ ΚΑΙ ΑΥΤΟΙ ΘΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΠΟΥ ΘΑ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΩΣΟΥΝ ΤΗΝ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΑΠΟ ΤΟ ΚΑΚΟ ΚΑΤΕΣΤΗΜΕΝΟ.

ΕΧΕΙΣ ΣΚΕΦΤΕΙ ΠΟΤΕ ΤΑ ΛΟΓΙΑ ΤΟΥ ΓΕΡΟΥ ΤΟΥ ΜΩΡΙΑ. ΦΩΤΙΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΣΕΚΟΥΡΙ ΣΤΟΥΣ ΠΡΟΣΚΥΝΗΜΕΝΟΥΣ. ΞΕΡΕΙΣ ΠΟΙΟΙ ΗΤΑΝ ΟΙ ΠΡΟΣΚΥΝΗΜΕΝΟΙ. ….ΟΧΙ ..ΟΙ ΡΑΓΙΑΔΕΣ ΗΤΑΝ ΟΙ ΠΡΟΣΚΥΝΟΥΝΤΕΣ… ΟΙ ΠΡΟΣΚΥΝΗΜΕΝΟΙ ΗΤΑΝ ΟΙ ΤΟΥΡΚΟΙ ΚΑΙ ΤΑ ΜΕΛΛΗ ΤΟΥ ΚΑΤΕΣΤΗΜΕΝΟΥ. Αυτους προσκυνουσαν οι ραγιαδες. Ανθρωποι σαν τον wakeup ησαν ειτε στο εξωτερικο ευελπιστοντας μια μερα να ελευθερωθη η πατριδατους ειτε στα βουνα πολεμοντας τους τουρκους.

WAKE UP says:

Αγαπητέ Νικόλα, αποφάσισα να μειώσω την παρουσία μου και να συμετέχω μόνο σε διαλόγους με ουσία και νόημα. Είσαι τέτοιος άνθρωπος, που ξέρει δηλαδή να κανει διάλογο και γι αυτο λοιπόν σου απαντάω. Ο λόγος που χρησιμοποιούσα αγγλικούς χαρακτήρες, ήταν για να επιταχύνω την γραφή. Ήταν όντος εσκεμένο το ότι απαντησα καποιες τελευταίες φορες έτσι γιατί όπως παρατηρεις η συζήτηση είχε πάρει εντελός την κάτω βόλτα. Το ότι ειναι λοιπον έτσι η γραφή ειναι αμελητέο..το πρόβλημα ειναι η ροή του διαλόγου και το περιεχόμενο. Άσε που τέτοιο που είναι το περιεχόμενο καλύτερα όχι μόνο να μην αισθανόμαστε και να μην τα καταλαβαίνουμε καν. Όπως είπαμε και πιο πάνω, με την παρουσία μας τιμάμε το πρόσωπο που προσεγγίζουμε και κάνουμε διάλογο. Με την απουσία και αγνοια τον αφήνουμε στο περιθόριο.

Kitsos says:

Νικ, μη παιδεύεσαι άδικα !!!
Την μόνη γραμματοσειρά που ξέρει καλά είναι αυτή με το
κυριλλικό αλφάβητο ενώ είναι εμφανής η πρόθεσή του να
μειώσει την αξία της ελληνικής γλώσσας, χρησιμοποιώντας
τα φραγκολεβαντίνικα γκρίκλις.
Επιπλέον, ακόμα και στα ελληνικά που έγραψε, φαίνεται
καθαρά η βοήθεια που δέχεται από κάποιον ίσως διαφορετικό
κάθε φορά ελληνομαθή
που του τσεκάρει τα κείμενα, αφού από κείμενο σε κείμενο
ή ορθογραφία και το συντακτικό του διαφέρουν πολύ
μεταξύ τους.
Καμμένα βουλγάρικα εθνικιστικά μυαλά που έχουν ξαμολυθεί στα φόρα
γιά να βγάλουν το μεροκάματο !!!
‘Αξιος ο μισθός σας ανθέλληνες !!!

Kitsos says:

Δεν κατάφερες να σώσεις τελικά ΤΙΠΟΤΑ !!!
Είσαι καταδικασμένος να παραμείνεις ένας αδιόρθωτος φλώρος που
-όπως λες πιό πάνω- τη βρίσκει να βάζει καρότα στον κώ-λο του χιονάνθρωπου
Μεγαλέξανδρου. Στο τέλος θα καταλήξετε να κάνετε βουντού σε ομοιώματά του.
Σου βγαίνει και το επιπλέον μίσος γι΄αυτόν, επειδή δεν έχεις στοιχεία
περί ομοφυλοφιλίας του γιά να συνεχίσεις την βιομηχανία της αποδόμισης.
Ως γνήσιος φλώρος, βάλε τώρα και τα δικά σου καρότα και αγγούρια
εκεί που ξέρεις καλά και άντε να την βρεις με τα πατριωτάκια σου στον
σύλλογό σας που ενισχύει οικονομικά και δίνει την γραμμή ο Σόρος !!!

Nick Nikolas says:

Αγαπητε φιλε WAKEUP, πιστευω οτι αν εγραφες οπως παλια χρησιμοποιοντας ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΥΣ χαρακτηρες γραφης, θα καταλαβαινατε καλλιτερα ο ενας τον αλλον. Νομιζω οτι το κανης επιτηδες. υποτιμας την Ελληνικη γραφη και εγω οταν τα διαβαζω δεν τα εσθανομαι. ξερεις, αλλο το αισθανομαι και αλλο το καταλαβαινω. Σε ερωτησα αν εχασες την Ελληνικη γραμματοσειρα και δεν μου απαντησες.

WAKE UP says:

ekei metras ti magia kai ton tsabouka esu? me theoreis maga epidi se eipa baglama? eisai labro loipon paradeigma neoellinikis BLAKIAS. An ekana toulaxiston ena lathos os tora, me sigoura itan to oti se apokalesa baglama. mes sto noima tou labrou ellinismou eisai gia akoma mia fora..pano pou anisixousa oti eixe svisei kai ksexastei.
Kapoios spoudaios eipe pos otan afieronoume xrono gia kapoion, me tin praksi mas auth ton timame, kai pragmati exei dikio. Tha eimai pio epilektikos apo do kai sto eksis pou apadao kathos o xronos einai apira polutimos kai esu apira anousios na suzitao.

me ektimisi ston enxordo filo mou

Kitsos says:

Πάντως φίλε ΞΥΠΝΑ, με πραγματική ικανοποίηση είδα να αντιδράς
με τσαμπουκά και να με αποκαλείς…μπαγλαμά, έστω και εάν έτσι
αδικείς αυτό το καταπληκτικό ελληνικό μουσικό όργανο που στα
χέρια μεγάλων παιχτών του, έκανε την Ελλάδα να αναστενάξει !
Στην δισκοθήκη μου έχω πολλά κομμάτια με ελληνική λαϊκή μουσική
και όπως κάνουν πολλοί, ακούω μετά μανίας.
Ανήκω στους εκτός Ελλάδας Έλληνες (από το 1981) και η μουσική
είναι μιά πραγματική γέφυρα με τον τόπο μου. Οπως και η (χαλαρή
στην περίπτωσή μου να το ομολογήσω) μελέτη της Ιστορίας μας.
Μέχρι πριν το τελευταίο ποστ σου, σε είχα γιά καμένο μυαλό και
φλώρο.
Η αντίδρασή σου όμως δείχνει ότι κατάφερα και σε πόνεσα
με αυτά που έγραψα γιά την πάρτη σου. Το ένα σκέλος το έσωσες!
Όποιος πονάει, είναι ακόμα ζωντανός !!!
Πρόσεξε όμως φίλε μη χάσεις την ευκαιρία τώρα που έχεις ακόμα
τις αισθήσεις σου.
Οι Κινέζοι έχουν μία παροιμία που λέει ” Η Ευκαιρία έχει μαλλιά μόνο
μπροστά γιά να την πιάσεις” !!! Και οι φλώροι συνήθως το παίρνουν
χαμπάρι όταν είναι πολύ αργά !!!

Kitsos says:

Βρε νούμερο ανθέλληνα, η συγκεκριμένη σειρά του BBC γιά τον
Μέγα Αλέξανδρο, παρουσιάζεται στο ΥouΤube σε 31 επεισόδια
με πρώτο το: rel="nofollow">
και τελευταίο το: rel="nofollow">
στην διάρκεια των οποίων ο παρουσιαστής αναφέρεται συχνά στις
πολλές πηγές του.
Μάλιστα διαβάζει με απλοϊκό τρόπο τα κείμενα στην αγγλική τους
μετάφραση ώστε να τα καταλάβει ακόμα και ένας ΒΛΑΚΑΣ !!!
Δεν μπορώ να σε βοηθήσω άλλο ! Ούτε θα σου αναφέρω ονόματα.
Να κάτσεις να τα δεις ΟΛΑ και μετά δεν θα ρωτάς εμένα ποιοί
αρχαίοι ιστορικοί αναφέρουν αυτά που αναφέρουν γιά τον ΜΕΓΑΛΟ
Έλληνα !!!!!!

Nick Nikolas says:

Με λιγα λογια. Ο βασικος εχθρος της Ελλαδος δεν ειναι σκοπιανος αλλα Ελληνας. Ο σκοπιανος ειναι απλα συμμαχος αυτου του εχθρου.
Αυτο θελεις να πεις φιλτατε WAKE UP;

Τι εγινε, εχασες την Ελληνικη γραμματοσειρα;

WAKE UP says:

agapite file to ksanaeida to video kai blepeis den anaferei istorikes piges. profanos einai kai ta agglika mou metria ti na po.. Gia na katalabeis poios einai o kollimenos des ti grafo:
very interesting input, that prooves he had courage (nothing to do with his action if are good or not). May i ask according to wich historian do this fact came on our hands?
leo loipon edo..polu endiaferon kai aplos rotao gia tis istorikes piges giati eipame ksana kai ksana na min afinoume to otidipote na iselthei san pliroforia.
Se ksanarotao loipon sumfona me poious istorikous?
to elliniko pneuma den to katastrefoun ta dolaria pou peftoun apo tous ekso alla apo tous mesa ellines baglamades pou nomizoun oti feroun to elliniko stixio. Na ksereis episis pos to pneuma den katastrefete me to xrima. baglama e baglama pou tin exeis dei kai elliniko pneuma 😀

Kitsos says:

Είπες και συ να πεις μία μ@L@&i@ και το έκανες λύσα ρε φίλε.
Ο τύπος του BBC που κάνει το ταξιδιωτικό γιά τον Μέγα Αλέξανδρο,
αναφέρει συνεχώς τις αρχαίες πηγές που περιγράφουν την δράση του.
Εσύ όμως επικαλείσαι ως πηγή των λεγομένων σου τον εαυτό σου
και την πεποίθηση που έχεις διαμορφώσει καθαρά από ανθελληνισμό.
Στατιστικά το βρίσκω και εγώ λογικό να έχουν πιάσει τόπο τα τόσα εκατομμύρια
δολάρια που έχουν ξοδεύσει οι βουλγαροσκοπιανοί γιά την
ανθελληνική προπαγάνδα τους. Ιδίως στην Αυστραλία, όπου
συχνά δημιουργούν και επεισόδια.
Ενα χαρακτηριστικό παράδειγμα είσαι εσύ !!!

WAKE UP says:

ipame na anatrexoume se piges min ginomaste toso rixoi..”to bbc eipe” kala ekane kai eipe aplos zitao na matho se poion istoriko exei anatreksei..profanos se kamia keimena aionon prin. Boro na ton fadasto soma me soma..einai gnosto oti tou arese i somatiki epafi 😀
sugnomi pou rixno to epipedo se blakeies apadao me blakeies 😀

Kitsos says:

Δεν μου είπες πώς είδες τον Μεγαλέξανδρο πρώτο πάνω στα κάστρα
να πολεμάει σώμα με σώμα;
Σου υπενθυμίζω ότι είχες γράψει πως ο Μεγαλέξανδρος …λουφάριζε !!!
Πες μου ότι βρίσκεσαι Αυστραλία όπου έχετε το δυνατότερο σκοπιανό λόμπι !!!
Τώρα εξηγούνται ΟΛΑ !!!
Κοντά πάντως είμαστε !!!
(γεωγραφικά εννοώ)

Nick Nikolas says:

Ἡ γλῶσσα τὼν Ἑλλὴνων δὲν εἶναι γλῶσσα εἶναι μηχανισμὸς.
http://nestanaios.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post_26.html

WAKE UP says:

πολύ σωστά Νικόλα! όπως π.χ. στρατεύομαι για την διάσωση του πλανήτη. Είδες τελικά..παλεύουμε να βγάλουμε συμπεράσματα χωρίς καλά καλά να γνωρίζουμε το λεξιλόγιο που χρησιμοποιούμε.

WAKE UP says:

very interesting input, that prooves he had courage (nothing to do with his action if are good or not). May i ask according to wich historian do this fact came on our hands?
Εδω χιονίζει, εφτιαξα και τον αλεξανδρο σε χιονανθρωπο! α! εβαλα και καρότο!!μαντεψε που!! 😀

Kitsos says:

Γιά κύριον ΞΥΠΝΑ, Sofia:
Γιά να μη βγάζεις συμπεράσματα γιά την ανδρεία του Μεγαλέξανδρου
από το μυαλό σου, δες ένα από τα πολλά επεισόδια του BBC:
rel="nofollow">
Τί καιρό έχετε εκεί ;;;!!!

Nick Nikolas says:

Γνωριζεις την εννοια της ακαδημιας; Ξερεις την ετυμολογια της; Δκαδημια ονομαστηκε η φιλοσοφικη σχολη του Πλατωνος διοτι ευρησκετο πλησιον του αγαλματος του Ακαδημου. Αν ευρησκετο πλησιον του αγαλματος του Ομηρου θα την ελεγαν ομηρια, του θησεος, θησια, του Αιγαιος, αιγια. Δεν εχει καν μια σχεσιν με το τι εννοουμε εμεις την σημερον με τον ορο ΑΚΑΔΗΜΙΑ, ACADEMY.ACADEMIA κλπ. κλπ. Εκ της σχολης του πλατωνος ευρησκομενης πλησιον του αγαλματος του ακαδημου εχομεν την σημερον ολες τις ακαδημιες του κοσμου. Αυτην την μεγαλην σημερον στρατια την αγει ειτε το θελομεν ητε οχι ο ΠΛΑΤΩΝ. Και εχομεν στρτατια +αγω = στρατηγος.

αλλη αποψις. Η ακαδημια του πλατωνος ξεκινησε τον πεμπτο προ χρηστιανικης εποχης αιωνα και την εκλεισαν οι πρωτοχρηστιανοι δια της βιας τον εκτο μετα χρηστιανικην εποχην αιωνα. χιλια και πλεον χρονια στρατηγος ητο ο Πλατων.

Ξερεις, εχομεν παραεξηγησει την εννοια του στρατου. Στρατος δεν ειναι μονον μια ομοδα ’…………’ ανθρωπων.

WAKE UP says:

Τι καθηστά τον Πλάτων στρατηγό? Ιστορικά τα είπαμε αγνοώ και είμαι εδώ για να ακούσω γνώμες από ανθρώπους. Γράφω πολλά πιθανόν επιδή έχω δυσκολία να εκφραστώ με λίγα. Ακούγετε περίεργο αλλά ειναι πιο δύσκολο να αποδοσω τι σκεψη με λιγα λόγια. Με το πολυ μπλα μπλα μπερδευω και κουραζω! και να μαι που παλι κανω το ιδιο αααΑΑΑΑ!!! ΣΤΟΠ!

Nick Nikolas says:

Ἡ ἀπὰντησὶς μου εἶναι ΠΛΑΤΩΝ. ὁ μεγαλλὶτερος στρατηγὸς ὄλων τῶν ἐποχῶν.

Σὲ παρακαλῶ πολὺ νὰ γρὰφης λὶγα. Τὰ πολὰ μὲ κουρὰζουν.

WAKE UP says:

217
Nick Nikolas Says:
May 19th, 2009 at 2:47 am

Κὶτσο, Ἀν ἔχης explorer 7, δὲν ἔχεις προβλημα. Ἀν ἔχης explorer 6, τὸτε ἔχεις προβλημα. Μὲ τὸ mozilla δὲν ἔχεις κανὲνα προβλημα.

Μὲ λὶγα λὸγια
1. exlorer 6 ……….βλὲπεις τετραγωνὰκια.
2. explorer 7……. κανὲνα προβλημα.
3. mozilla………….κανὲνα προβλημα.

Δοκιμασὲτο καὶ ἐνημερωσὲμε.

φιλτατε wake up….Ἀν συνεχισωμεν νὰ μιλὰμε γιὰ τὸν Ἀλὲξανδρο, φοβὰμε ὄτι θὰ τὸν ξανὰδω στὸν ὑπνομου. Περιμὲνω απαντηση με λὶγα λὸγια γιὰ τὸν καλλὶτερο στρατηγο.

ε φτάνει τότε, δεν θελω να βλέπεις εφιάλτες! 🙂 Δεν γνωρίζω κάποιον καλό στρατηγο. Βοήθησε με εσύ. Ψάχνω κάτι σε ανδρα ή γυναίκα που απέτρεψε μάχες και συμφιλίωσε λαόυς

Dimokritos says:

216WAKE UP Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
214
Dimokritos Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
203
WAKE UP Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 10:10 am
>189
WAKE UP Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
1)
# So, you wouldn’t fight for your freedom and equality, would you?#


of course i agree to fight in order to take back or gain a freedom i never had. on post 168 i talking a lot about it


## In other words your saying that it’s perfectly acceptable to take back the lands robbed by Turks such as f.e. occupied Cyprus.

QQ>what is important is that people who live there, in the half-turk cyprus, live in harmory same thing for the other half part. so there is no need to take any kind of action there unless its an action of peace such as to open boarders and mix people. an action to enstamblish a harmony between them.
### It’s acceptable therefore to free the Peloponess from Moslem Ottomans and gain what you call it “civilian’s freedom” below, but unacceptable to liberate occupied Cyprus from barbarian thought?
PPPP> did you ever hear any civilian thAT lives in the occupied cyprus (i inform you that it is turkish citizens there) to ask help from greece to liberate it? because greeks on peloponisos wanted it and did it. occupied part of cyprus is not even asking any kind of help.

#### This means, that you won’t fight for the liberty of the occupied part of Cyprus, because it is essentially ethnically cleansed by Turks.

1.1) by making a distintion between defender and conqueror
take a look on: [I am not sure I understand..killing more than many.] conqueror -- defender

## According to your opinion, Kolokotronis helped to set free “native Greek land” by killing people. What’s wrong than to free f.e. Makedonia, Ionia and Pontus occupied by Turks at that time?


QQ>well when we say freedom and ”to set free” it would be better to focus on the freedom of the civilians and not on the land. When kolokotronis was fighting, he was fighting to defend the rights of the humans where in threat. So if we suppose that now a new ”kolokotronis” will come to set free lets say konstantinoupoli-instambul what will he set free? i guess none. probably he will slave people because there, people are already free and they dont need any kolokotronis.
### Well, you misread my question. I clearly stated at “that time” meaning the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Again, would it have been acceptable, according to your belief, to liberate people (“freedom of the civilians”) from Turkish yoke in Makedonia, Kostaninoupoli, Smyrni and Pontus as was done in the Peloponess and the rest of Greece?
PPPP>at that time yes. konstantinoupoli was under a threat, people where behing the walls and turkish military was outside ready to attack as thay did. the people who where inside had to be protected and helped. in nowdays its a hole different situation as long as there are living people in their armony. if it was a situation since then (till now) of slavery then we could talk about setting free. so in that period yes, to protect those people who lived there. now no as long as the people who live there are just fine.

#### So, you would at “that time” find it acceptable to liberate lands which were populated by Greeks such as Konstantinoupoli, Pontos and Smyrni. Today however, because the lands are ethnically cleansed of native Greek people such as is the case of the occupied part Cyprus, you consider it (quote):
“a hole different situation as long as there are living people in their armony. if it was a situation since then (till now) of slavery then we could talk about setting free.”
You’re joking my friend!
What about human rights violations f.e. of the enclaved and enslaved Greek Cypriotes and Maronites?
http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/portal/portal.nsf/All/91D3E5F38C7D9775C2257029003402BD?OpenDocument&a=1&z=

QQ>so setting free is reaction probably refering to an instant action. that also means that wile if it was an action of defence once(imidiate action), in a distant future we are talking not about defence but about conquering. this period of time to take action depends each time from the circustances. can be 50 or 5000 years. for example in greece it was 400, a long time.
### Half of Cyprus has been occupied by brute, genocidal Turkish force and barbarian culture since 35 years. If they don’t find a solution, in accordance to f.e. EU-standard and values in the next 20 years -- would that mean that Turks have the right to claim the occupied part of Cyprus as theirs because a certain time period has elapsed? Would the Turks therefore legitimately (according to your logic) defend “their” land from prospective, so called Greek invaders/conquerors, because of the 50 years (“distant past”) that have past since their conquest?
PPPP>One thing is sure that if we try to take back with force we will always loose both because in my logic when team A kills 3 civilians from team B and B 78 from i dont see team B as a winner, i see 2 teams that both have lost in total 81 civilians. even if someone thinks B is considered the winner as i said again and again before is a periodical winning that will feed for an eternity anger to repeat fights. in fact consider that since troy wars, (is more than 3000 years till now) that with the actual turkey we never had a period of peace. so instead of keep thinking lets take back…i think it time to think on alternative ways…more than 3000 years both sides used this lets take back and didnt worked..

#### It’s for sure, that as long as barbarism isn’t entirely defeated, there won’t be peace at all. As for the alternatives that you’ve proposed till now, allow me to say this, they’re plain wishful thinking.
——————————


2) # What would have been the better option according to your belief -- Greek or Persian “slavery”? Did Alexander keep with his campaign the “free-minded” liberated from “barbarian slavery” or not?#


its like you are asking me to choose between bad or worst. so, even if we consider alexanders slavery ”just” bad in comparison with the worst it doesnt make him a personality that worths to be considered a great man (as we you to say alexander the great) great for avoiding a worst situation in order to make it bad? for me someone is great when converts a bad situation to a good one where people are free both in their actions and in their mind.as long as we accepted it as a soft slavery freedom is an utopia. this is a fact on every form of slavery. There is no need to go long time from today in order to make an example in greek reality. The dictature (considering as much softer form of slavery) of papadopoulos. was there any kind of freedom? the bad thing is that humans tend to forget and in that way they let history to recycle and repeat same mistakes.

## You’re saying therefore, that Alexanders “slavery” would have been the better of the “bad or worst” possibilities to choose from, are you?

QQ>no, i am saying even if! in order to afford the alexanders actions the less stricly i can and i still can find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done.
### So, you’re still insisting that Alexander’s so called “slavery” is of equal value to any other because he killed? You would forgive Alexander’s actions -- also Hitler’s, Jihadist Ataturk’s, Papadopoulos’ and Stalin’s, I guess. There are however, no differences between these gentlemen to find, isn’t it? Whose deeds did protect “individual freedom of action and mind” more likely and till today, what do you think?
PPPP>no, i am saying even if! in order to afford the alexanders actions the less stricly i can and i still can find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done.
sorry it was still can’t find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done. not can. my typing mistake

#### Therefore you’re saying that there is no difference at all between the above gentlemen.
——————————————-



3) # Again, was there a difference between Greek and Persian culture or were they equal, according to your spiritual harmony and belief?#


of course there where to different cultures. having 2 different culteres is neither bad or good. its just a fact.

## And the two different cultures were not equal because they differed in “bad or worst slavery” as seen above.

QQ>i cant see were i say this i apology if that is what my typing trasmits. No, t2 culteres are not different because of the difference on its form of slavery. i only say that are 2 different cultures (can be art, habits etch ) and that the fact that are different doesnt not mean there is a good culture or a bad culture. i only say that its just a culture and an other.
### So if you had to choose between the Persian and the Greek culture, with the knowledge you’ve got today, you won’t prefer the one over the other, right?
PPPP>probably but as long as i dont realy know their culture i cant compare. Attention here, dont confuse our nowdays greek culture with the ancient greek culture. also the fact a culture that in my opinion could fit better on me doesnt mean that same thing happens to any person and thats a reason not to force peoplle accept a new culture. good thing is sawing it and who whants to get something, is welcome.

#### You can’t compare? You may open a book.

——————————————-


4) # Alexander did kill undoubtedly also during his campaign. Did historians also mention anything else?#

i need a more precise question. i mean historians will give dates and places that there was a fight, various names etch but the reason that im a standing on the fact that he killed so much is because that makes me understand a lot about what kind of person he was..from a humanistic point of view

## From a “humanistic” point of view, has academia (f.e. historians) indicated how Alexander’s deeds have influenced our present way of living or not?

QQ> From what i remember they say he ”exported” the culture.From my point of view a realy bad action from alexander. if you refer on that i can explain better what i mean
### I mean exactly that, he did “export” culture too. Let me repeat my question: Did Alexander’s deeds influence our present way of living and if yes, for the better or for the worse?###
Yes, worse.

#### All you’re saying is therefore, that Alexander’s deeds influenced our present way of living for the worse. Would you like to present any references for your claim?
————————————————



5) #From your angelic point of view this would mean, that you’d accept the barbarian term
 only if you’d have a barbarian in front of you in order to examine his values?
And what did you say? Each one of them “needs to be compared”?
You must be kidding my friend. Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#


i will ask then, you what is your opinion for socrates and his life? because you should also know that greek court condemned him to death. its true what you are saying..the procedure of examination is not an easy thing and its not easy doing it or the ancient greek politicians, workers, writers..all people that socrates used to examine and uncover the truth..they just killed him. we! the superior greeks! sometimes two situations might not be much different but a nice suit can make the difference. will make everything seem to be so good and normal.

## Yes, the “superior Greeks” did kill unfortunately Sokrates which of course was a mistake and wrong. So what?

QQ>it was a reply to make more clear that the brainwashed hooligans are not only the ”barbarians”
”Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#” same kind of people we are affording to daily but they are nicely camuflazed.
### And again, so what? People are not flawless after all neither at the time Sokrates was living nor today. Do we have however, overall a better place today due to Sokrates’ and Alexanders’ thoughts and deeds, or
not?
PPPP>wait wait dont put socrates and alexander is same phrase they are 2 opposites. From Alexanders we have bad things to remember and by following his path we will always be from a bad to a worst situation.
following socrates path we will gain an honest and clear path that could guide on a state of eudaimonia.

#### Now go and explain this to a brainwashed hooligan who is going to enslave you, while you’re fantasizing! Again, wishing you good luck!

————————————————-


6) # Let me paraphrase then: Is there a difference between a scholarly accepted truth and an individual’s opinion on historical matters?#


we both went to a greek school so we got aproximately same input but now we sare 2 differnt points of view. so the difference will be on the way we ”translate” the facts. lets say a different interpretation. But that matters, if you mean facts, like: dates, names, actions cant be changed only from someone who studied or maybe discovered in some way a new evidence that will might bring to new considerations. i guess its a work of a historian. but even when a new consideration will come (as long as is objectively a new fact) and something will change, all individuals should accept. so all individuals will sare again the same opinion

## Until new scholarly research presents new findings about how Alexander’s campaign influenced our present way of live, I’m most certainly not going to accept any “personal opinion” on this matter.

QQ>what historians give you is the facts with dates numbers statistics names etch. its on you to make an opinion according to your morality. Dont be based dont trust so much anyones opinion. what i suggest you is to hear it and then examine it. after this reject or gain it. whats wrong on that? is it bad to think?
### Of course not, the opposite. You’re free, as already mentioned, to think and believe whatever you want. However, to believe that one’s opinion is above factual evidence of scientific basis, is highly questionable.
PPPP>well my believes i dont think that are based or different facts. a kill is a fact. how i or you will interpretate it, is not a fac.

#### Until you prove the opposite, it’s simply your reductionist opinion, nothing more.
—————————————————————

7) # Mutual respect is a precondition for peace and harmony. Is the western civilisation and democratic freedom we’ve got nowadays the best we have including its limitations or not? Unfortunately, history shows that “spirituality” and good will alone is no match against brute physic. You either have both or your efforts to counter the brute are in vain.#


its good for me and you. dont go far away and take a look on number of deaths on iraq. so lets ask a civilian from there that if he is alive maybe has no house and kinds anymore. we just permit it without understanding that during this circle of deaths sooner or later will come our time too a our kinds time. so yes its good for me and you but its also periodical because its not good with a true and clear meaning..its just a matter of luck that in this period of time a war its not a reality where we live..

## Yes, we are undoubtedly lucky, however, only due to our forefathers who fought for their values against the “barbarians”.

QQ>i repeat, as long as you are happy for sutuations like this you just accept a periodical freedom. take a look on nick nikolas post 198
### It’s undoubtedly acceptable. “Periodical freedom” is a given fact as long as your opponent is offending by a different set of rules and values. Check also the reference below.
—————————————————————-


8.) # Attacking first might be used for both, defence and conquest.
Don’t get too caught up with “spirituality“, you might hurt yourself.#


yes but in case of alexander that is our argument he acted clearly as conqueror.
in fact my spiritual world is realy poor and i would more be worried for not taking more care for it than spending lees time for it. and since now most selfhurting had to do with the fact i didnt took care for my spirituality.

## Take care than. Wishing you all the best for your efforts.
Again, Alexander defended his superior cultural values with, if you like, conquest -- “defending by attacking” that is.

QQ>thank you, ill work on it. whatever happens its the only think that someone can cautch. stinodas ksoberges pianete ta poulia oxi to kelaidima tous. kapos etsi to eipe.
### Check this excellent analysis out: Αποτρεπτική στρατηγική, απειλές χαμηλής έντασης, έλεγχος κλιμακώσεως, ικανότητα πρώτου χτυπήματος και η αξιοπιστία της αποτρεπτικής μας στρατηγικής: http://neo.antibaro.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2090:0109-apotreptikh-strathgikh&catid=70:texts&Itemid=138

PPP> i readed a part. according to that text they are going to eat us in the first chance. they will follow alexanders spirit! conquest! its on our hand to stop affording things as alexander and find different solutions.

#### This paper presents a well researched analysis which you ignore and lightly dismiss, without even reading it, as “conquest”!
Would you mind to present to us your sources you’ve got from the idea about “different solutions”? Otherwise, I’m afraid, you might be considered an ignorant fantasist.
———————————————————————-


9) # Right, we’re not the “all-mighty”.#


here i dont understand and i dont say its your fault as long as i recognize my enlish is not realy good
## There might be things we’re not able to change, f.e. the way somebody thinks.

QQ>yes of course. i also difasgree to force an action like this. what is fair, is that someone saws me a way and if i accept it i follow. following will meaningless unless i dont comprehate the path. comprehantion by forcing doeasnt exist.

### Oh yes, it does exist! In every society which does not support freedom of thought, brainwashing is clearly a way of enforced “comprehension”.
PPP> no it doent because im talking about comprehantion not just doing (acting like a sheep).

#### Now, this discourse is only possible within a culture which supports freedom of thought. If you would ask however the barbarian from above, who he believes would be the brainwashed one, you or himself, you would get a simple answer. Good luck to you again!

———————————————————-


10) # Well done. You’re allowed to think in your exclusive way of “absolute material world” as long as you want. However, ignoring the fact that our present way of living is greatly influenced for the better by the deeds of Alexander is irrefutable.#


this world irrefutable is dangerous. sometimes something might be wrong and will never change because its an irrefutable situation and life goes on with same mistakes. it would be more honest to say: ok there is a problem..an here there is a political problem that will end in a good or in a bad way. and till its solved both parts will gain realy less (on human relations but on economics too). So i realy think its a case to open my eyes and my mind and make a research without ”irrefutable”. Just an examination and if happens that an opened mind view will return to the same considerations that where done before the examinations then it will also be more real than before. will not be sothing i accepted and ended like that. will be an input examinated confermed and accepted.

## I agree.

QQ> me too (for the moment)
———————————–


11) # That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.#

someone said the most difficut thing to notice is the nose..so close so simple.
i start from 0 without irrefutable (that we mentioned before) slowly 0 will become sothing more complex but will still be simple. maybe in long time from here will be more complex.
when i make a thought, a simple one, i try the same time to see where this thought doesnt work. as i cant find it non working(for the moment) on its simple form i let it like this. the fact i cant fight my own simple thought that is so simple seems that is compact and can defend from my outher thought. thats also a reason im here to be honest. i try to help myself by the examination you make on my thoughts and try to find where it doesnt work.

## We’re not talking here about mathematical truth (1+1=2) but in the sense of probability. So, the probability that Alexander is only a killer as you’ve claimed, is close to zero:

QQ>probability is limf(x) with x tending to infinite 
let me ask you a question. etimologicaly, when someone is a killer?
### The probability is therefore infinite much higher, that Alexander was not “only a killer” as you originally stated.
A killer is f.e., somebody who deprives the life of another human being: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=killer&searchmode=none
PPP>and when someones deprive with his decision looots of human lifes?

#### Is there a the difference between one and ten thousand? I don’t think so!

*********************

WAKE UP #182, 187:

****And as long as what i write above is true based on common logic that cant be regected, even if its greek, dont be so proud, it would be more honnest to feel ashamed. read above starting from my post 164 and saw me that i am wrong. i would be realy pleased. thank you, best regards.****

5) In your wicked understanding of logic, historic truth means propaganda lies,
doesn’t it?

>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.

5.1) So what?
Is that all you can think off in your elementary, ignorant and confused way of thinking?
o>>>well its elementary and i agree but its not ignorant as long as you are not prooving it to me. a little confused..yes might me but for sure much less than the rest i saw in here. you are kidding and making fun of me for this small example:
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
well this example put in contrast all your way of thinking because it prooves alexander was a killer. thats way you become mad, because you see a truth but you cant accept it or afford it. and you cant do this because you are (for one more time) joking enstead of accepting or defending.

# That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.

*********************
Best regards.

Kitsos says:

Εγώ, στην θέση της λέξης ”βαρ-ίδια” που γράφει ο καθηγητής,
θα έβαζα μία άλλη που έχει μεν την ίδια κατάληξη
αλλά άλλη αρχ-ή !!!

Kitsos says:

Μιά πρώτη απάντηση γιά το ότι οι Κύπριοι δεν ενδιαφέρονται γιά τίποτα παρά μόνο
γιά το …ψάρεμα, αφού δεν σου λένε τίποτα τα μαζικά αντικατοχικά συλλαλητήρια
(Σολωμού, Ισαάκ και άλλοι),
ούτε η σθεναρή τους αντίθεση στο σχέδιο Ανάν κλπ, δες ένα μικρό μόνο
μέρος εξ όσων γράφει γιά την πάρτη σας (δεν είσαι μόνος)
στο παραπάνω ιστολόγιο ο Παν. Ήφαιστος.
Θα δεις και άλλα χρήσιμα εφόσον αντέξεις την ανάγνωση…
//…Εν τέλει, δεν υπάρχει βρωμερότερο επιστημονικό φαινόμενο
από την συνειδητή μεταμφίεση προπαγανδιστικών θέσεων εκ μέρους
εξωπολιτικών και εξωκοινωνικών δρώντων. Στο διεθνές αυτό θέατρο του παραλόγου
βλέπουμε πλέον και πολλούς δημοσιογράφους οι οποίοι διόλου τυχαία
συνεργάζονται με τους μεταμφιεσμένους προπαγανδιστές.
Στην Ελλάδα πήραμε μια γεύση τι σημαίνουν όλα αυτά την ημέρα της εθνικής
ανεξαρτησίας όταν διαδιδόταν η βρωμερή φήμη ότι ήταν περίπου
λάθος να γίνει αγώνας ανεξαρτησίας. Όπου και να βρίσκονται αυτά
τα διεθνικά όντα είναι παντού τα ίδια. Ζουν σε μια χώρα και την μισούν,
στρέφονται εναντίον των φιλειρηνικών συμφερόντων της χώρας από την
οποία ωφελούνται και ξερνούν καθημερινά τις εμετικές ιδεολογικοπολιτικές
τους εκλογικεύσεις που εξυπηρετούν τα διεθνοφασιστικά συμφέροντα.
Και όλα αυτά με καθωσπρεπισμούς, ύπουλες νηφαλιότητες και νοοτροπίες
συνδικάτου που υπηρετεί ένας όχλος ομοϊδεατών προπαγανδιστών
ιδεολογικοπολιτικών εκλογικεύσεων. Είναι βαρίδια σε όποια χώρα και αν ζουν.//…

Kitsos says:

Εσύ είσαι ”στου κουφού την πόρτα, όσο θέλεις βρόντα” !!!
Τόχεις ρίξει -ελλείψει επιχειρημάτων- στις στατιστικές !!!
Πολλές φορές τραυματίστηκε ο Αλέξανδρος (μάχη Γρανικού κλπ)
και μία φορά πολύ σοβαρά, όταν βρέθηκε μόνος σχεδόν επάνω στις επάλξεις
του τείχους όταν κατέλαβαν το βασίλειο των Μαλών στην Ινδία.
Αφού ανέβηκε από την σκάλα μαζί με έναν στρατηγό του και τρεις ακόμα
υπασπιστές του, βρέθηκε να πολεμά μόνος του διότι οι σκάλες πίσω του
έσπασαν υπό το βάρος των στρατιωτών του που ξεχύθηκαν κι αυτοί να ανέβουν επάνω
όταν τον είδαν να ανεβαίνει πρώτος.
Εκεί, ο ίδιος εξουδετέρωσε τον βασιλιά των Ινδών, βέλος όμως διαπέρασε τον θώρακα
και τρύπησε τον πνεύμονά του.
Αλλά είχε γιατρό βαρβάτο μαζί του (τον Κριτόδημο από την Κω) που τον χειρούργησε
και άλλον (τον Ακαρνάνα Φίλιππο) που με φάρμακα τον θεράπευσε και την καθάρισε !!

Δέχεσαι πάντως την άμυνα όταν δεχθείς επίθεση.
Αλλά και το στρατιωτικό δόγμα του Αλέξανδρου ήταν αμυντικό !!!
Διάβασε Παν. Κονδύλη.
Επίσης ο Παναγιώτης Ήφαιστος
Καθηγητής, Διεθνείς Σχέσεις-Στρατηγικές Σπουδές
Πανεπιστήμιο Πειραιώς, Τμήμα Διεθνών και Ευρωπαϊκών Σπουδών
http://www.ifestos.edu.gr
http://www.ifestosedu.gr
info@ifestosedu.gr
info@ifestos.edu.gr
γράφει στη μελέτη του με τίτλο ”Αποτρεπτική στρατηγική και η “απαγόρευση”
χειραφετημένης ελληνικής στρατηγικής σκέψης :
”…Η αποτροπή είναι τόσο ισχυρότερη όσο ο αποτρέπων είναι ικανός όχι μόνον
να αμυνθεί στο έδαφός του αλλά και να αντεπιτεθεί ανταποδίδοντας καίριο
κτύπημα κατά των ζωτικών ικανοτήτων του επιτιθέμενου…”

Kitsos says:

Me mozilla OK !!! efxaristw

Nick Nikolas says:

Κὶτσο, Ἀν ἔχης explorer 7, δὲν ἔχεις προβλημα. Ἀν ἔχης explorer 6, τὸτε ἔχεις προβλημα. Μὲ τὸ mozilla δὲν ἔχεις κανὲνα προβλημα.

Μὲ λὶγα λὸγια
1. exlorer 6 ……….βλὲπεις τετραγωνὰκια.
2. explorer 7……. κανὲνα προβλημα.
3. mozilla………….κανὲνα προβλημα.

Δοκιμασὲτο καὶ ἐνημερωσὲμε.

φιλτατε wake up….Ἀν συνεχισωμεν νὰ μιλὰμε γιὰ τὸν Ἀλὲξανδρο, φοβὰμε ὄτι θὰ τὸν ξανὰδω στὸν ὑπνομου. Περιμὲνω απαντηση με λὶγα λὸγια γιὰ τὸν καλλὶτερο στρατηγο.

WAKE UP says:

214
Dimokritos Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

203
WAKE UP Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 10:10 am
>189
WAKE UP Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
1) # So, you wouldn’t fight for your freedom and equality, would you?#

of course i agree to fight in order to take back or gain a freedom i never had. on post 168 i talking a lot about it

## In other words your saying that it’s perfectly acceptable to take back the lands robbed by Turks such as f.e. occupied Cyprus.
QQ>what is important is that people who live there, in the half-turk cyprus, live in harmory same thing for the other half part. so there is no need to take any kind of action there unless its an action of peace such as to open boarders and mix people. an action to enstamblish a harmony between them.

### It’s acceptable therefore to free the Peloponess from Moslem Ottomans and gain what you call it “civilian’s freedom” below, but unacceptable to liberate occupied Cyprus from barbarian thought?

PPPP> did you ever hear any civilian thAT lives in the occupied cyprus (i inform you that it is turkish citizens there) to ask help from greece to liberate it? because greeks on peloponisos wanted it and did it. occupied part of cyprus is not even asking any kkind of help.

1.1) by making a distintion between defender and conqueror
take a look on: [I am not sure I understand..killing more than many.] conqueror -- defender
## According to your opinion, Kolokotronis helped to set free “native Greek land” by killing people. What’s wrong than to free f.e. Makedonia, Ionia and Pontus occupied by Turks at that time?

QQ>well when we say freedom and ”to set free” it would be better to focus on the freedom of the civilians and not on the land. When kolokotronis was fighting, he was fighting to defend the rights of the humans where in threat. So if we suppose that now a new ”kolokotronis” will come to set free lets say konstantinoupoli-instambul what will he set free? i guess none. probably he will slave people because there, people are already free and they dont need any kolokotronis.

### Well, you misread my question. I clearly stated at “that time” meaning the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Again, would it have been acceptable, according to your belief, to liberate people (“freedom of the civilians”) from Turkish yoke in Makedonia, Kostaninoupoli, Smyrni and Pontus as was done in the Peloponess and the rest of Greece?

PPPP>at that time yes. konstantinoupoli was under a threat, people where behing the walls and turkish military was outside ready to attack as thay did. the people who where inside had to be protected and helped. in nowdays its a hole different situation as long as there are living people in their armony. if it was a situation since then (till now) of slavery then we could talk about setting free. so in that period yes, to protect those people who lived there. now no as long as the people who live there are just fine.

QQ>so setting free is reaction probably refering to an instant action. that also means that wile if it was an action of defence once(imidiate action), in a distant future we are talking not about defence but about conquering. this period of time to take action depends each time from the circustances. can be 50 or 5000 years. for example in greece it was 400, a long time.

### Half of Cyprus has been occupied by brute, genocidal Turkish force and barbarian culture since 35 years. If they don’t find a solution, in accordance to f.e. EU-standard and values in the next 20 years -- would that mean that Turks have the right to claim the occupied part of Cyprus as theirs because a certain time period has elapsed? Would the Turks therefore legitimately (according to your logic) defend “their” land from prospective, so called Greek invaders/conquerors, because of the 50 years (“distant past”) that have past since their conquest?

PPPP>One thing is sure that if we try to take back with force we will always loose both because in my logic when team A kills 3 civilians from team B and B 78 from i dont see team B as a winner, i see 2 teams that both have lost in total 81 civilians. even if someone thinks B is considered the winner as i said again and again before is a periodical winning that will feed for an eternity anger to repeat fights. in fact consider that since troy wars, (is more than 3000 years till now) that with the actual turkey we never had a period of peace. so instead of keep thinking lets take back…i think it time to think on alternative ways…more than 3000 years both sides used this lets take back and didnt worked..
——————————


2) # What would have been the better option according to your belief -- Greek or Persian “slavery”? Did Alexander keep with his campaign the “free-minded” liberated from “barbarian slavery” or not?#

its like you are asking me to choose between bad or worst. so, even if we consider alexanders slavery ”just” bad in comparison with the worst it doesnt make him a personality that worths to be considered a great man (as we you to say alexander the great) great for avoiding a worst situation in order to make it bad? for me someone is great when converts a bad situation to a good one where people are free both in their actions and in their mind.as long as we accepted it as a soft slavery freedom is an utopia. this is a fact on every form of slavery. There is no need to go long time from today in order to make an example in greek reality. The dictature (considering as much softer form of slavery) of papadopoulos. was there any kind of freedom? the bad thing is that humans tend to forget and in that way they let history to recycle and repeat same mistakes.
## You’re saying therefore, that Alexanders “slavery” would have been the better of the “bad or worst” possibilities to choose from, are you?
QQ>no, i am saying even if! in order to afford the alexanders actions the less stricly i can and i still can find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done.

### So, you’re still insisting that Alexander’s so called “slavery” is of equal value to any other because he killed? You would forgive Alexander’s actions -- also Hitler’s, Jihadist Ataturk’s, Papadopoulos’ and Stalin’s, I guess. There are however, no differences between these gentlemen to find, isn’t it? Whose deeds did protect “individual freedom of action and mind” more likely and till today, what do you think?

PPPP>no, i am saying even if! in order to afford the alexanders actions the less stricly i can and i still can find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done.
sorry it was still can’t find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done. not can. my typing mistake
——————————————-

3) # Again, was there a difference between Greek and Persian culture or were they equal, according to your spiritual harmony and belief?#

of course there where to different cultures. having 2 different culteres is neither bad or good. its just a fact.
## And the two different cultures were not equal because they differed in “bad or worst slavery” as seen above.
QQ>i cant see were i say this i apology if that is what my typing trasmits. No, t2 culteres are not different because of the difference on its form of slavery. i only say that are 2 different cultures (can be art, habits etch ) and that the fact that are different doesnt not mean there is a good culture or a bad culture. i only say that its just a culture and an other.

### So if you had to choose between the Persian and the Greek culture, with the knowledge you’ve got today, you won’t prefer the one over the other, right?

PPPP>probably but as long as i dont realy know their culture i cant compare. Attention here, dont confuse our nowdays greek culture with the ancient greek culture. also the fact a culture that in my opinion could fit better on me doesnt mean that same thing happens to any person and thats a reason not to force peoplle accept a new culture. good thing is sawing it and who whants to get something, is welcome.
——————————————-


4) # Alexander did kill undoubtedly also during his campaign. Did historians also mention anything else?#

i need a more precise question. i mean historians will give dates and places that there was a fight, various names etch but the reason that im a standing on the fact that he killed so much is because that makes me understand a lot about what kind of person he was..from a humanistic point of view
## From a “humanistic” point of view, has academia (f.e. historians) indicated how Alexander’s deeds have influenced our present way of living or not?
QQ> From what i remember they say he ”exported” the culture.From my point of view a realy bad action from alexander. if you refer on that i can explain better what i mean

### I mean exactly that, he did “export” culture too. Let me repeat my question: Did Alexander’s deeds influence our present way of living and if yes, for the better or for the worse?

Yes, worse.
————————————————

5) #From your angelic point of view this would mean, that you’d accept the barbarian term
 only if you’d have a barbarian in front of you in order to examine his values?
And what did you say? Each one of them “needs to be compared”?
You must be kidding my friend. Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#

i will ask then, you what is your opinion for socrates and his life? because you should also know that greek court condemned him to death. its true what you are saying..the procedure of examination is not an easy thing and its not easy doing it or the ancient greek politicians, workers, writers..all people that socrates used to examine and uncover the truth..they just killed him. we! the superior greeks! sometimes two situations might not be much different but a nice suit can make the difference. will make everything seem to be so good and normal.
## Yes, the “superior Greeks” did kill unfortunately Sokrates which of course was a mistake and wrong. So what?
QQ>it was a reply to make more clear that the brainwashed hooligans are not only the ”barbarians”
”Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#” same kind of people we are affording to daily but they are nicely camuflazed.

### And again, so what? People are not flawless after all neither at the time Sokrates was living nor today. Do we have however, overall a better place today due to Sokrates’ and Alexanders’ thoughts and deeds, or
not?

PPPP>wait wait dont put socrates and alexander is same phrase 😀 they are 2 opposites. From Alexanders we have bad things to remember and by following his path we will always be from a bad to a worst situation.
following socrates path we will gain an honest and clear path that could guide on a state of eudaimonia.

————————————————-


6) # Let me paraphrase then: Is there a difference between a scholarly accepted truth and an individual’s opinion on historical matters?#

we both went to a greek school so we got aproximately same input but now we sare 2 differnt points of view. so the difference will be on the way we ”translate” the facts. lets say a different interpretation. But that matters, if you mean facts, like: dates, names, actions cant be changed only from someone who studied or maybe discovered in some way a new evidence that will might bring to new considerations. i guess its a work of a historian. but even when a new consideration will come (as long as is objectively a new fact) and something will change, all individuals should accept. so all individuals will sare again the same opinion
## Until new scholarly research presents new findings about how Alexander’s campaign influenced our present way of live, I’m most certainly not going to accept any “personal opinion” on this matter.
QQ>what historians give you is the facts with dates numbers statistics names etch. its on you to make an opinion according to your morality. Dont be based dont trust so much anyones opinion. what i suggest you is to hear it and then examine it. after this reject or gain it. whats wrong on that? is it bad to think?

### Of course not, the opposite. You’re free, as already mentioned, to think and believe whatever you want. However, to believe that one’s opinion is above factual evidence of scientific basis, is highly questionable.

PPPP>well my believes i dont think that are based or different facts. a kill is a fact. how i or you will interpretate it, is not a fac.

—————————————————————

7) # Mutual respect is a precondition for peace and harmony. Is the western civilisation and democratic freedom we’ve got nowadays the best we have including its limitations or not? Unfortunately, history shows that “spirituality” and good will alone is no match against brute physic. You either have both or your efforts to counter the brute are in vain.#

its good for me and you. dont go far away and take a look on number of deaths on iraq. so lets ask a civilian from there that if he is alive maybe has no house and kinds anymore. we just permit it without understanding that during this circle of deaths sooner or later will come our time too a our kinds time. so yes its good for me and you but its also periodical because its not good with a true and clear meaning..its just a matter of luck that in this period of time a war its not a reality where we live..
## Yes, we are undoubtedly lucky, however, only due to our forefathers who fought for their values against the “barbarians”.
QQ>i repeat, as long as you are happy for sutuations like this you just accept a periodical freedom. take a look on nick nikolas post 198

### It’s undoubtedly acceptable. “Periodical freedom” is a given fact as long as your opponent is offending by a different set of rules and values. Check also the reference below.

—————————————————————-


8.) # Attacking first might be used for both, defence and conquest.
Don’t get too caught up with “spirituality“, you might hurt yourself.#

yes but in case of alexander that is our argument he acted clearly as conqueror.
in fact my spiritual world is realy poor and i would more be worried for not taking more care for it than spending lees time for it. and since now most selfhurting had to do with the fact i didnt took care for my spirituality.
## Take care than. Wishing you all the best for your efforts.
Again, Alexander defended his superior cultural values with, if you like, conquest -- “defending by attacking” that is.
QQ>thank you, ill work on it. whatever happens its the only think that someone can cautch. stinodas ksoberges pianete ta poulia oxi to kelaidima tous. kapos etsi to eipe.

### Check this excellent analysis out: Αποτρεπτική στρατηγική, απειλές χαμηλής έντασης, έλεγχος κλιμακώσεως, ικανότητα πρώτου χτυπήματος και η αξιοπιστία της αποτρεπτικής μας στρατηγικής: http://neo.antibaro.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2090:0109-apotreptikh-strathgikh&catid=70:texts&Itemid=138

PPP> i readed a part. according to that text they are going to eat us in the first chance. they will follow alexanders spirit! conquest! its on our hand to stop affording things as alexander and find different solutions.

———————————————————————-


9) # Right, we’re not the “all-mighty”.#

here i dont understand and i dont say its your fault as long as i recognize my enlish is not realy good
## There might be things we’re not able to change, f.e. the way somebody thinks.
QQ>yes of course. i also difasgree to force an action like this. what is fair, is that someone saws me a way and if i accept it i follow. following will meaningless unless i dont comprehate the path. comprehantion by forcing doeasnt exist.
### Oh yes, it does exist! In every society which does not support freedom of thought, brainwashing is clearly a way of enforced “comprehension”.

PPP> no it doent because im talking about comprehantion not just doing (acting like a sheep).

———————————————————-


10) # Well done. You’re allowed to think in your exclusive way of “absolute material world” as long as you want. However, ignoring the fact that our present way of living is greatly influenced for the better by the deeds of Alexander is irrefutable.#

this world irrefutable is dangerous. sometimes something might be wrong and will never change because its an irrefutable situation and life goes on with same mistakes. it would be more honest to say: ok there is a problem..an here there is a political problem that will end in a good or in a bad way. and till its solved both parts will gain realy less (on human relations but on economics too). So i realy think its a case to open my eyes and my mind and make a research without ”irrefutable”. Just an examination and if happens that an opened mind view will return to the same considerations that where done before the examinations then it will also be more real than before. will not be sothing i accepted and ended like that. will be an input examinated confermed and accepted.
## I agree.

QQ> me too (for the moment)

———————————–


11) # That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.#
someone said the most difficut thing to notice is the nose..so close so simple.
i start from 0 without irrefutable (that we mentioned before) slowly 0 will become sothing more complex but will still be simple. maybe in long time from here will be more complex.
when i make a thought, a simple one, i try the same time to see where this thought doesnt work. as i cant find it non working(for the moment) on its simple form i let it like this. the fact i cant fight my own simple thought that is so simple seems that is compact and can defend from my outher thought. thats also a reason im here to be honest. i try to help myself by the examination you make on my thoughts and try to find where it doesnt work.
## We’re not talking here about mathematical truth (1+1=2) but in the sense of probability. So, the probability that Alexander is only a killer as you’ve claimed, is close to zero:
QQ>probability is limf(x) with x tending to infinite 
let me ask you a question. etimologicaly, when someone is a killer?

### The probability is therefore infinite much higher, that Alexander was not “only a killer” as you originally stated.
A killer is f.e., somebody who deprives the life of another human being: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=killer&searchmode=none

PPP>and when someones deprive with his decision looots of human lifes?

*********************
WAKE UP #182, 187:
****And as long as what i write above is true based on common logic that cant be regected, even if its greek, dont be so proud, it would be more honnest to feel ashamed. read above starting from my post 164 and saw me that i am wrong. i would be realy pleased. thank you, best regards.****
5) In your wicked understanding of logic, historic truth means propaganda lies,
doesn’t it?
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
5.1) So what?
Is that all you can think off in your elementary, ignorant and confused way of thinking?
o>>>well its elementary and i agree but its not ignorant as long as you are not prooving it to me. a little confused..yes might me but for sure much less than the rest i saw in here. you are kidding and making fun of me for this small example:
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
well this example put in contrast all your way of thinking because it prooves alexander was a killer. thats way you become mad, because you see a truth but you cant accept it or afford it. and you cant do this because you are (for one more time) joking enstead of accepting or defending.
# That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.
*********************

Best regards.
Best regards to you too 😀

WAKE UP says:

211
Kitsos Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 11:04 am

Φίλε Νικ,
Γιατί όλα σου τα κείμενά σου στα ελληνικά τα βλέπω με κουτάκια ή εάν τα κάνω κόπι πέιστ, με ερωτηματικά;
Παρατηρείται μόνο στα γράμματα που έχουν τόνο.
Είχε συμβεί πάλι σε άλλο ιστολόγιο με έναν άλλο φίλο και μόλις του το αναφέραμε, με κάποιο τρόπο το
διόρθωσε. Μερικοί όμως με μακ το έβλεπαν τότε σωστά !

? β?ρκα ε?ναι παν?τοιμη χειμ?να-καλοκα?ρι. ?ν ποτε ?λθης ?λλ?δα π?με φαλκονα?ρα.
?ς παραμερ?σωμεν τ?ν ?λ?ξανδρον κα? ?ς πο?με κ?τι γι? στρατηγο?ς.
Ξ?ρεις πο?ος ε?ναι ? καλλ?τερος στρατηγ?ς ?λων τ?ν ?ποχ?ν;

Ἡ βὰρκα εἶναι πανὲτοιμη χειμὼνα-καλοκαὶρι. Ἄν ποτε ἔλθης Ἑλλὰδα πὰμε φαλκοναῖρα.
Ἀς παραμερὴσωμεν τὸν Ἀλὲξανδρον καὶ ἀς ποῦμε κὰτι γιὰ στρατηγοὺς.
Ξὲρεις ποῖος εἶναι ὁ καλλὶτερος στρατηγὸς ὀλων τῶν ἐποχῶν;

τα ελληνικα εγω τα βλεπω καλα με τον mozilla στον explorer μου κανει το ίδιο πρόβλημα!

WAKE UP says:

210
Kitsos Says:
May 18th, 2009 at 9:54 am

”ΞΥΠΝΑ” και ”Σκοπιά” είναι στην Ελλάδα τα περιοδικά των Μαρτύρων του Ιεχωβά !!!
Οι οποίοι τις τελευταίες δεκαετίες έχουν βελτιώσει πολύ τις τεχνικές τους και δεν
τους παίρνεις χαμπάρι εύκολα.
Πες μου ότι είσαι και εσύ εκεί, να …πεθάνω !!!
Ναι λοιπόν ” ‘Ελληνες και Τούρκοι Εργάτες Ενωμένοι”!!!
Το να είναι κάποιος διεθνιστής, δεν σημαίνει ότι δεν μπορεί να είναι πατριώτης
και πρέπει να είναι εθνομηδενιστής υποχρεωτικά !
Εάν δεν αγαπήσεις την πατρίδα και το έθνος σου με όλα όσα αυτά σημαίνουν
υπό την καλή έννοια και μακριά από εθνικισμούς, πώς μπορείς να αγαπήσεις και τον γείτονά σου;;;
Αν και η μέχρι τώρα συζήτηση είχε περιοριστεί στο ζήτημα εάν ο Αλέξανδρος, ως ένας
εκ των προπατόρων μας, πρέπει να μας κάνει να ντρεπόμαστε ή όχι, εδώ να πω και δυό κουβέντες
γιά τους γείτονές μας μιάς και το ανάφερες στο τέλος του σχολίου σου.
Βέβαια, με χαρά είδα ότι δεν σχολίασες αυτό που είπα ότι ο Αλέξανδρος ήταν ένας
ΗΓΕΤΗΣ με όλη την σημασία της λέξης, αφού πρώτος στην μάχη και όχι από τα μετώπισθεν
και με τον…ασύρματο, καθοδηγούσε τον στρατό του. Ο οποίος είχε τραυματισθεί πολλές φορές,
σε μία περίπτωση πολύ σοβαρά, και είχε κατηγορηθεί
από τους επιτελείς του ότι εκθέτει τον εαυτό του σε κίνδυνο πέραν του δέοντος.
Αυτό που είχες πει, ότι δηλαδή ήταν…κότα στην μάχη, το αναφέρει κατά κόρον
και το ανθελληνικό μπουλγκαρμακ.
Ενώ τα ιστορικά στοιχεία λένε το ακριβώς αντίθετο.
Πώς σου …ξέφυγε αυτό αφού όπως λες (και φαίνεται) μελετάς Ιστορία;;;

δεν μελετάω ιστορία. στατιστικά ειναι αδύνατο να προτοστατεις σε μια μαχη, να μπαίνεις στον όχλο και να βγαίνεις ζωντανός. όσο ικανός κι αν είναι κανείς δεν πα΄θει να ειναι ανθρωπος..ένα βελος ενα σπαθί θα σε βρει αν ανακατευεσε μεσα στο πλυθος πριν ακόμα εξασφαλιστει η νικη. Δεν την κατακρίνω τη στάση αυτη, φαντλαζομε σχεδον ολοι οι στρατιγοι ετσι κανουν καθος αν συμβει κατι στο ιδιο, ο στρατος θα παθει κριση πανικου. αλλα μαγκας (με την εννοια οτι εχει νικησει τον φοβο για το θανατο) ειναι ο καθενας που βρεθηκε στην πρωτη γραμμη και οχι οι στρατηγοι. Αν υπαρχει κατι αναγνωρισημο για τον αλεξανδρο ειναι η ικανότητα να κρινει στρατιγικα ποια ειναι η σωστη κίνηση για τον στρατο. να εκτελει εντολες και μαζι με αυτες να εκτελει και ανθρωπινες ζωες. Δεν ακολουθησε τα βηματα του μυθηκου του ηρωα Αχιλλεα, που τοσο ήθελε να το μοιασει. Ακομα και ο μυθηκος αχιλλεας που δεν ειχε ξεπερασει την φοβια για τον θανατο, δεν δειλιαζε να προτοστατει.

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Σε σχέση με τους γείτονές μας εξ ανατολών.
Δεν νομίζεις ότι τα 35 χρόνια που κατέχουν την βόρεια Κύπρο είναι παρά πολλά;
Δεν νομίζεις ότι έχει περάσει αρκετός καιρός έτσι ώστε να δουν ότι έχουν εκλείψει ΟΛΟΙ οι λόγοι
τους οποίους (ψευδώς) επικαλέσθηκαν τότε γιά να κάνουν την εισβολή;
Δεν βλέπεις ότι η Ελλάδα δεν έχει καθοιονδήποτε τρόπο εκφράσει απειλές ή έχει
βλέψεις (εδαφικές ή άλλες) εναντίον τους και ότι η Κύπρος, ένα μικρό κράτος μέλος της ΕΕ,
δεν μπορεί να τους απειλήσει στρατιωτικά;
Πώς μπορούμε επομένως ως χώρα και λαός να τους θεωρούμε καλούς γείτονες και να τους
εμπιστευόμαστε όταν βλέπουμε ότι αρνούνται οι ίδιοι να δώσουν το χέρι τους
στο δικό μας που παραμένει επί δεκαετίες απλωμένο προς το μέρος τους;
Εάν αποχωρήσουν από την Κύπρο και άρουν το κάζους μπέλι που αναίτια έχουν αποφασίσει εναντίον μας,
τότε να κάτσουμε να τα βρούμε. Οι σχέσεις καλής γειτονίας να ξεκινήσουν από την Κύπρο διότι εκεί
έχουν δημιουργήσει ένα τεράστιο ανθρωπιστικό δράμα.
Και τα ναζιστικά στρατεύματα αποτελούντο από γερμανούς (αλλά και άλλους) προλετάριους.
Οπως και ο φασιστικός στρατός του Μουσολίνι. Μήπως δεν έπρεπε τότε, ως λαός-προλεταριάτο,
να αντισταθούμε εφόσον αυτοί μας επιτέθηκαν;
Ή δεν έπρεπεν να κάνουν το ίδιο και οι άλλοι λαοί σε Ευρώπη και Ασία;
Ή δεν πρέπει να αντιστέκονται σήμερα οι Παλαιστίνιοι, ο Κούρδοι, οι Ιρακινοί, οι Αφγανοί κλπ;;;
Η ανανάγνωση της Ιστορίας που κάνεις τι λέει ; Μήπως την διαβάζεις τσάμπα,
οπότε καλύτερα να πας γιά ψάρεμα αφού σε χαλάει;;;
Τα ωραία λόγια περί αδελφοσύνης κλπ είναι απλώς, ωραία θεωρητικά λόγια.
Ας πιέσουν εκεί οι εργαζόμενοι -με τους οποίους πράγματι δεν έχουμε να μοιράσουμε τίποτα-
τις κυβερνήσεις τους να αποχωρήσουν από το Νησί γιά να αποκατασταθεί η αδικία και
θα τα βρούμε σίγουρα. Η Ειρήνη είναι όπως το ταγκό. Χρειάζονται δύο γιά να το χορέψουν !!!
Εδώ όμως να πω και το εξής: Ενώ το προλεταριάτο στις δύο αυτές χώρες δεν έχει να μοιράσει
τίποτα. φαίνεται ότι η άρχουσα τάξη της Τουρκίας ΕΧΕΙ !!!
Πες μου μία ελληνική κυβέρνηση (της αστικής τάξης όλες τους) που είχαμε από το 1974 και μετά,
που απείλησε την τουρκική αστική τάξη.
Ενώ δεν υπήρξε ΟΥΤΕ ΜΙΑ δική τους που να μην απείλησε με πολλούς και διάφορους τρόπους
την Ελλάδα.
Οταν από το διπλανό σου σπίτι, που ήδη σου έχουν πάρει με την βία ένα δωμάτιο, ακούς συνέχεια απειλές ότι
θέλουν να πάρουν κι άλλο, τότε κλειδώνεις.
Οταν δε, προσπαθείς να συζητήσεις μαζί τους και αυτοί δεν θέλουν συζήτηση, τότε γυρίζεις δύο
φορές το κλειδί.
Οταν οι Τούρκοι πολίτες φθάσουν να συνειδητοποιήσουν το κακό που έχει κάνει η χώρα τους στις άλλες
χώρες και στους άλλους λαούς εντός της Τουρκίας και γύρω γύρω, τότε σε κάτι μπορούμε να ελπίζουμε !!!

Ρε συ 😀 με εχεις παρεξηγησει-υπερεκτιμισει. δεν διαβαζω ιστορία. Όταν η ευρώπη αντιστεκόταν, συνεβαινε επιδή ο λαός το είχε ανάγκη, το ζητουσε επιδή ζούσε υπό μια ναζιστική πίεση. Αντε μια βόλτα στην κύπρο και μπορει να γνωρίσεις κοσμο που θα ρωτήσεις: τι σου αρέσει να κανεις στον ελευθερο χρονο? -ψάρεμα! -α ναι? που πας? -στη λιμνη! -σε πια λιμνη? -σπίτι μου! υπερβολικό ακουγετε? πιστεψεμε συνέβει. αστο αυτο ειναι ακρέα περίπτωση. η αλήθεια ειναι οτι ο πιο φτωχος εκει εχει σπιτι και φαή εξασφαλισμένο..κατι που στον υπολοιπο πλανήτη πολλες φορές ειναι λουσο. Γι αυτο θεωρο πως αφου ο βιος τον ανθρωπον εκει ειναι καλος δεν υπαρχει λόγος για επεμβάσεις. ειναι βολεμένοι μια χαρα! αρα να κανουμε τι? να προσφέρουμε τι? απο τη στιγμη που δεν τους λειπει κατι.

Dimokritos says:

203
WAKE UP Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 10:10 am
>189
WAKE UP Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
1) # So, you wouldn’t fight for your freedom and equality, would you?#

of course i agree to fight in order to take back or gain a freedom i never had. on post 168 i talking a lot about it

## In other words your saying that it’s perfectly acceptable to take back the lands robbed by Turks such as f.e. occupied Cyprus.
QQ>what is important is that people who live there, in the half-turk cyprus, live in harmory same thing for the other half part. so there is no need to take any kind of action there unless its an action of peace such as to open boarders and mix people. an action to enstamblish a harmony between them.

### It’s acceptable therefore to free the Peloponess from Moslem Ottomans and gain what you call it “civilian’s freedom” below, but unacceptable to liberate occupied Cyprus from barbarian thought?

1.1) by making a distintion between defender and conqueror
take a look on: [I am not sure I understand..killing more than many.] conqueror -- defender
## According to your opinion, Kolokotronis helped to set free “native Greek land” by killing people. What’s wrong than to free f.e. Makedonia, Ionia and Pontus occupied by Turks at that time?

QQ>well when we say freedom and ”to set free” it would be better to focus on the freedom of the civilians and not on the land. When kolokotronis was fighting, he was fighting to defend the rights of the humans where in threat. So if we suppose that now a new ”kolokotronis” will come to set free lets say konstantinoupoli-instambul what will he set free? i guess none. probably he will slave people because there, people are already free and they dont need any kolokotronis.

### Well, you misread my question. I clearly stated at “that time” meaning the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. Again, would it have been acceptable, according to your belief, to liberate people (“freedom of the civilians”) from Turkish yoke in Makedonia, Kostaninoupoli, Smyrni and Pontus as was done in the Peloponess and the rest of Greece?

QQ>so setting free is reaction probably refering to an instant action. that also means that wile if it was an action of defence once(imidiate action), in a distant future we are talking not about defence but about conquering. this period of time to take action depends each time from the circustances. can be 50 or 5000 years. for example in greece it was 400, a long time.

### Half of Cyprus has been occupied by brute, genocidal Turkish force and barbarian culture since 35 years. If they don’t find a solution, in accordance to f.e. EU-standard and values in the next 20 years -- would that mean that Turks have the right to claim the occupied part of Cyprus as theirs because a certain time period has elapsed? Would the Turks therefore legitimately (according to your logic) defend “their” land from prospective, so called Greek invaders/conquerors, because of the 50 years (“distant past”) that have past since their conquest?
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2) # What would have been the better option according to your belief -- Greek or Persian “slavery”? Did Alexander keep with his campaign the “free-minded” liberated from “barbarian slavery” or not?#

its like you are asking me to choose between bad or worst. so, even if we consider alexanders slavery ”just” bad in comparison with the worst it doesnt make him a personality that worths to be considered a great man (as we you to say alexander the great) great for avoiding a worst situation in order to make it bad? for me someone is great when converts a bad situation to a good one where people are free both in their actions and in their mind.as long as we accepted it as a soft slavery freedom is an utopia. this is a fact on every form of slavery. There is no need to go long time from today in order to make an example in greek reality. The dictature (considering as much softer form of slavery) of papadopoulos. was there any kind of freedom? the bad thing is that humans tend to forget and in that way they let history to recycle and repeat same mistakes.
## You’re saying therefore, that Alexanders “slavery” would have been the better of the “bad or worst” possibilities to choose from, are you?
QQ>no, i am saying even if! in order to afford the alexanders actions the less stricly i can and i still can find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done.

### So, you’re still insisting that Alexander’s so called “slavery” is of equal value to any other because he killed? You would forgive Alexander’s actions -- also Hitler’s, Jihadist Ataturk’s, Papadopoulos’ and Stalin’s, I guess. There are however, no differences between these gentlemen to find, isn’t it? Whose deeds did protect “individual freedom of action and mind” more likely and till today, what do you think?
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3) # Again, was there a difference between Greek and Persian culture or were they equal, according to your spiritual harmony and belief?#

of course there where to different cultures. having 2 different culteres is neither bad or good. its just a fact.
## And the two different cultures were not equal because they differed in “bad or worst slavery” as seen above.
QQ>i cant see were i say this i apology if that is what my typing trasmits. No, t2 culteres are not different because of the difference on its form of slavery. i only say that are 2 different cultures (can be art, habits etch ) and that the fact that are different doesnt not mean there is a good culture or a bad culture. i only say that its just a culture and an other.

### So if you had to choose between the Persian and the Greek culture, with the knowledge you’ve got today, you won’t prefer the one over the other, right?
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4) # Alexander did kill undoubtedly also during his campaign. Did historians also mention anything else?#

i need a more precise question. i mean historians will give dates and places that there was a fight, various names etch but the reason that im a standing on the fact that he killed so much is because that makes me understand a lot about what kind of person he was..from a humanistic point of view
## From a “humanistic” point of view, has academia (f.e. historians) indicated how Alexander’s deeds have influenced our present way of living or not?
QQ> From what i remember they say he ”exported” the culture.From my point of view a realy bad action from alexander. if you refer on that i can explain better what i mean

### I mean exactly that, he did “export” culture too. Let me repeat my question: Did Alexander’s deeds influence our present way of living and if yes, for the better or for the worse?
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5) #From your angelic point of view this would mean, that you’d accept the barbarian term
 only if you’d have a barbarian in front of you in order to examine his values?
And what did you say? Each one of them “needs to be compared”?
You must be kidding my friend. Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#

i will ask then, you what is your opinion for socrates and his life? because you should also know that greek court condemned him to death. its true what you are saying..the procedure of examination is not an easy thing and its not easy doing it or the ancient greek politicians, workers, writers..all people that socrates used to examine and uncover the truth..they just killed him. we! the superior greeks! sometimes two situations might not be much different but a nice suit can make the difference. will make everything seem to be so good and normal.
## Yes, the “superior Greeks” did kill unfortunately Sokrates which of course was a mistake and wrong. So what?
QQ>it was a reply to make more clear that the brainwashed hooligans are not only the ”barbarians”
”Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#” same kind of people we are affording to daily but they are nicely camuflazed.

### And again, so what? People are not flawless after all neither at the time Sokrates was living nor today. Do we have however, overall a better place today due to Sokrates’ and Alexanders’ thoughts and deeds, or not?
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6) # Let me paraphrase then: Is there a difference between a scholarly accepted truth and an individual’s opinion on historical matters?#

we both went to a greek school so we got aproximately same input but now we sare 2 differnt points of view. so the difference will be on the way we ”translate” the facts. lets say a different interpretation. But that matters, if you mean facts, like: dates, names, actions cant be changed only from someone who studied or maybe discovered in some way a new evidence that will might bring to new considerations. i guess its a work of a historian. but even when a new consideration will come (as long as is objectively a new fact) and something will change, all individuals should accept. so all individuals will sare again the same opinion
## Until new scholarly research presents new findings about how Alexander’s campaign influenced our present way of live, I’m most certainly not going to accept any “personal opinion” on this matter.
QQ>what historians give you is the facts with dates numbers statistics names etch. its on you to make an opinion according to your morality. Dont be based dont trust so much anyones opinion. what i suggest you is to hear it and then examine it. after this reject or gain it. whats wrong on that? is it bad to think?

### Of course not, the opposite. You’re free, as already mentioned, to think and believe whatever you want. However, to believe that one’s opinion is above factual evidence of scientific basis, is highly questionable.

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7) # Mutual respect is a precondition for peace and harmony. Is the western civilisation and democratic freedom we’ve got nowadays the best we have including its limitations or not? Unfortunately, history shows that “spirituality” and good will alone is no match against brute physic. You either have both or your efforts to counter the brute are in vain.#

its good for me and you. dont go far away and take a look on number of deaths on iraq. so lets ask a civilian from there that if he is alive maybe has no house and kinds anymore. we just permit it without understanding that during this circle of deaths sooner or later will come our time too a our kinds time. so yes its good for me and you but its also periodical because its not good with a true and clear meaning..its just a matter of luck that in this period of time a war its not a reality where we live..
## Yes, we are undoubtedly lucky, however, only due to our forefathers who fought for their values against the “barbarians”.
QQ>i repeat, as long as you are happy for sutuations like this you just accept a periodical freedom. take a look on nick nikolas post 198

### It’s undoubtedly acceptable. “Periodical freedom” is a given fact as long as your opponent is offending by a different set of rules and values. Check also the reference below.

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8.) # Attacking first might be used for both, defence and conquest.
Don’t get too caught up with “spirituality“, you might hurt yourself.#

yes but in case of alexander that is our argument he acted clearly as conqueror.
in fact my spiritual world is realy poor and i would more be worried for not taking more care for it than spending lees time for it. and since now most selfhurting had to do with the fact i didnt took care for my spirituality.
## Take care than. Wishing you all the best for your efforts.
Again, Alexander defended his superior cultural values with, if you like, conquest -- “defending by attacking” that is.
QQ>thank you, ill work on it. whatever happens its the only think that someone can cautch. stinodas ksoberges pianete ta poulia oxi to kelaidima tous. kapos etsi to eipe.

### Check this excellent analysis out: Αποτρεπτική στρατηγική, απειλές χαμηλής έντασης, έλεγχος κλιμακώσεως, ικανότητα πρώτου χτυπήματος και η αξιοπιστία της αποτρεπτικής μας στρατηγικής: http://neo.antibaro.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2090:0109-apotreptikh-strathgikh&catid=70:texts&Itemid=138

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9) # Right, we’re not the “all-mighty”.#

here i dont understand and i dont say its your fault as long as i recognize my enlish is not realy good
## There might be things we’re not able to change, f.e. the way somebody thinks.
QQ>yes of course. i also difasgree to force an action like this. what is fair, is that someone saws me a way and if i accept it i follow. following will meaningless unless i dont comprehate the path. comprehantion by forcing doeasnt exist.
### Oh yes, it does exist! In every society which does not support freedom of thought, brainwashing is clearly a way of enforced “comprehension”.

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10) # Well done. You’re allowed to think in your exclusive way of “absolute material world” as long as you want. However, ignoring the fact that our present way of living is greatly influenced for the better by the deeds of Alexander is irrefutable.#

this world irrefutable is dangerous. sometimes something might be wrong and will never change because its an irrefutable situation and life goes on with same mistakes. it would be more honest to say: ok there is a problem..an here there is a political problem that will end in a good or in a bad way. and till its solved both parts will gain realy less (on human relations but on economics too). So i realy think its a case to open my eyes and my mind and make a research without ”irrefutable”. Just an examination and if happens that an opened mind view will return to the same considerations that where done before the examinations then it will also be more real than before. will not be sothing i accepted and ended like that. will be an input examinated confermed and accepted.
## I agree.

QQ> me too (for the moment)

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11) # That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.#
someone said the most difficut thing to notice is the nose..so close so simple.
i start from 0 without irrefutable (that we mentioned before) slowly 0 will become sothing more complex but will still be simple. maybe in long time from here will be more complex.
when i make a thought, a simple one, i try the same time to see where this thought doesnt work. as i cant find it non working(for the moment) on its simple form i let it like this. the fact i cant fight my own simple thought that is so simple seems that is compact and can defend from my outher thought. thats also a reason im here to be honest. i try to help myself by the examination you make on my thoughts and try to find where it doesnt work.
## We’re not talking here about mathematical truth (1+1=2) but in the sense of probability. So, the probability that Alexander is only a killer as you’ve claimed, is close to zero:
QQ>probability is limf(x) with x tending to infinite 
let me ask you a question. etimologicaly, when someone is a killer?

### The probability is therefore infinite much higher, that Alexander was not “only a killer” as you originally stated.
A killer is f.e., somebody who deprives the life of another human being: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=killer&searchmode=none

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WAKE UP #182, 187:
****And as long as what i write above is true based on common logic that cant be regected, even if its greek, dont be so proud, it would be more honnest to feel ashamed. read above starting from my post 164 and saw me that i am wrong. i would be realy pleased. thank you, best regards.****
5) In your wicked understanding of logic, historic truth means propaganda lies,
doesn’t it?
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
5.1) So what?
Is that all you can think off in your elementary, ignorant and confused way of thinking?
o>>>well its elementary and i agree but its not ignorant as long as you are not prooving it to me. a little confused..yes might me but for sure much less than the rest i saw in here. you are kidding and making fun of me for this small example:
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
well this example put in contrast all your way of thinking because it prooves alexander was a killer. thats way you become mad, because you see a truth but you cant accept it or afford it. and you cant do this because you are (for one more time) joking enstead of accepting or defending.
# That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.
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Best regards.

Nick Nikolas says:

φιλτατε Κιτσο, σε ευχαριστω για την πληροφορια. η γραμματοσειρα που χρησημοποιῶ ειναι του πολυτονικου. Θα προσπαθησω να το διορθωσω αν και οταν δεν χρησιμοποιω τονους δεν υπαρχει προβλημα.

my dearest friend wake up. Ὁ μεγαλλιτερος ΣΤΡΑΤΗΓΟΣ ὀλων τῶν ἐποχὠν εἶναι ὁ ΠΛΑΤΩΝ. take your time before you give me an answer.

Kitsos says:

Φίλε Νικ,
Γιατί όλα σου τα κείμενά σου στα ελληνικά τα βλέπω με κουτάκια ή εάν τα κάνω κόπι πέιστ, με ερωτηματικά;
Παρατηρείται μόνο στα γράμματα που έχουν τόνο.
Είχε συμβεί πάλι σε άλλο ιστολόγιο με έναν άλλο φίλο και μόλις του το αναφέραμε, με κάποιο τρόπο το
διόρθωσε. Μερικοί όμως με μακ το έβλεπαν τότε σωστά !

? β?ρκα ε?ναι παν?τοιμη χειμ?να-καλοκα?ρι. ?ν ποτε ?λθης ?λλ?δα π?με φαλκονα?ρα.
?ς παραμερ?σωμεν τ?ν ?λ?ξανδρον κα? ?ς πο?με κ?τι γι? στρατηγο?ς.
Ξ?ρεις πο?ος ε?ναι ? καλλ?τερος στρατηγ?ς ?λων τ?ν ?ποχ?ν;

Ἡ βὰρκα εἶναι πανὲτοιμη χειμὼνα-καλοκαὶρι. Ἄν ποτε ἔλθης Ἑλλὰδα πὰμε φαλκοναῖρα.
Ἀς παραμερὴσωμεν τὸν Ἀλὲξανδρον καὶ ἀς ποῦμε κὰτι γιὰ στρατηγοὺς.
Ξὲρεις ποῖος εἶναι ὁ καλλὶτερος στρατηγὸς ὀλων τῶν ἐποχῶν;

Kitsos says:

”ΞΥΠΝΑ” και ”Σκοπιά” είναι στην Ελλάδα τα περιοδικά των Μαρτύρων του Ιεχωβά !!!
Οι οποίοι τις τελευταίες δεκαετίες έχουν βελτιώσει πολύ τις τεχνικές τους και δεν
τους παίρνεις χαμπάρι εύκολα.
Πες μου ότι είσαι και εσύ εκεί, να …πεθάνω !!!
Ναι λοιπόν ” ‘Ελληνες και Τούρκοι Εργάτες Ενωμένοι”!!!
Το να είναι κάποιος διεθνιστής, δεν σημαίνει ότι δεν μπορεί να είναι πατριώτης
και πρέπει να είναι εθνομηδενιστής υποχρεωτικά !
Εάν δεν αγαπήσεις την πατρίδα και το έθνος σου με όλα όσα αυτά σημαίνουν
υπό την καλή έννοια και μακριά από εθνικισμούς, πώς μπορείς να αγαπήσεις και τον γείτονά σου;;;
Αν και η μέχρι τώρα συζήτηση είχε περιοριστεί στο ζήτημα εάν ο Αλέξανδρος, ως ένας
εκ των προπατόρων μας, πρέπει να μας κάνει να ντρεπόμαστε ή όχι, εδώ να πω και δυό κουβέντες
γιά τους γείτονές μας μιάς και το ανάφερες στο τέλος του σχολίου σου.
Βέβαια, με χαρά είδα ότι δεν σχολίασες αυτό που είπα ότι ο Αλέξανδρος ήταν ένας
ΗΓΕΤΗΣ με όλη την σημασία της λέξης, αφού πρώτος στην μάχη και όχι από τα μετώπισθεν
και με τον…ασύρματο, καθοδηγούσε τον στρατό του. Ο οποίος είχε τραυματισθεί πολλές φορές,
σε μία περίπτωση πολύ σοβαρά, και είχε κατηγορηθεί
από τους επιτελείς του ότι εκθέτει τον εαυτό του σε κίνδυνο πέραν του δέοντος.
Αυτό που είχες πει, ότι δηλαδή ήταν…κότα στην μάχη, το αναφέρει κατά κόρον
και το ανθελληνικό μπουλγκαρμακ.
Ενώ τα ιστορικά στοιχεία λένε το ακριβώς αντίθετο.
Πώς σου …ξέφυγε αυτό αφού όπως λες (και φαίνεται) μελετάς Ιστορία;;;

Σε σχέση με τους γείτονές μας εξ ανατολών.
Δεν νομίζεις ότι τα 35 χρόνια που κατέχουν την βόρεια Κύπρο είναι παρά πολλά;
Δεν νομίζεις ότι έχει περάσει αρκετός καιρός έτσι ώστε να δουν ότι έχουν εκλείψει ΟΛΟΙ οι λόγοι
τους οποίους (ψευδώς) επικαλέσθηκαν τότε γιά να κάνουν την εισβολή;
Δεν βλέπεις ότι η Ελλάδα δεν έχει καθοιονδήποτε τρόπο εκφράσει απειλές ή έχει
βλέψεις (εδαφικές ή άλλες) εναντίον τους και ότι η Κύπρος, ένα μικρό κράτος μέλος της ΕΕ,
δεν μπορεί να τους απειλήσει στρατιωτικά;
Πώς μπορούμε επομένως ως χώρα και λαός να τους θεωρούμε καλούς γείτονες και να τους
εμπιστευόμαστε όταν βλέπουμε ότι αρνούνται οι ίδιοι να δώσουν το χέρι τους
στο δικό μας που παραμένει επί δεκαετίες απλωμένο προς το μέρος τους;
Εάν αποχωρήσουν από την Κύπρο και άρουν το κάζους μπέλι που αναίτια έχουν αποφασίσει εναντίον μας,
τότε να κάτσουμε να τα βρούμε. Οι σχέσεις καλής γειτονίας να ξεκινήσουν από την Κύπρο διότι εκεί
έχουν δημιουργήσει ένα τεράστιο ανθρωπιστικό δράμα.
Και τα ναζιστικά στρατεύματα αποτελούντο από γερμανούς (αλλά και άλλους) προλετάριους.
Οπως και ο φασιστικός στρατός του Μουσολίνι. Μήπως δεν έπρεπε τότε, ως λαός-προλεταριάτο,
να αντισταθούμε εφόσον αυτοί μας επιτέθηκαν;
Ή δεν έπρεπεν να κάνουν το ίδιο και οι άλλοι λαοί σε Ευρώπη και Ασία;
Ή δεν πρέπει να αντιστέκονται σήμερα οι Παλαιστίνιοι, ο Κούρδοι, οι Ιρακινοί, οι Αφγανοί κλπ;;;
Η ανανάγνωση της Ιστορίας που κάνεις τι λέει ; Μήπως την διαβάζεις τσάμπα,
οπότε καλύτερα να πας γιά ψάρεμα αφού σε χαλάει;;;

Τα ωραία λόγια περί αδελφοσύνης κλπ είναι απλώς, ωραία θεωρητικά λόγια.
Ας πιέσουν εκεί οι εργαζόμενοι -με τους οποίους πράγματι δεν έχουμε να μοιράσουμε τίποτα-
τις κυβερνήσεις τους να αποχωρήσουν από το Νησί γιά να αποκατασταθεί η αδικία και
θα τα βρούμε σίγουρα. Η Ειρήνη είναι όπως το ταγκό. Χρειάζονται δύο γιά να το χορέψουν !!!
Εδώ όμως να πω και το εξής: Ενώ το προλεταριάτο στις δύο αυτές χώρες δεν έχει να μοιράσει
τίποτα. φαίνεται ότι η άρχουσα τάξη της Τουρκίας ΕΧΕΙ !!!
Πες μου μία ελληνική κυβέρνηση (της αστικής τάξης όλες τους) που είχαμε από το 1974 και μετά,
που απείλησε την τουρκική αστική τάξη.
Ενώ δεν υπήρξε ΟΥΤΕ ΜΙΑ δική τους που να μην απείλησε με πολλούς και διάφορους τρόπους
την Ελλάδα.
Οταν από το διπλανό σου σπίτι, που ήδη σου έχουν πάρει με την βία ένα δωμάτιο, ακούς συνέχεια απειλές ότι
θέλουν να πάρουν κι άλλο, τότε κλειδώνεις.
Οταν δε, προσπαθείς να συζητήσεις μαζί τους και αυτοί δεν θέλουν συζήτηση, τότε γυρίζεις δύο
φορές το κλειδί.
Οταν οι Τούρκοι πολίτες φθάσουν να συνειδητοποιήσουν το κακό που έχει κάνει η χώρα τους στις άλλες
χώρες και στους άλλους λαούς εντός της Τουρκίας και γύρω γύρω, τότε σε κάτι μπορούμε να ελπίζουμε !!!

WAKE UP says:

Να ΄σαι καλά για την ευγενική σου πρόταση, θα την έχω υπ΄ όψη μου. Δεν έχω σχηματίσει κάποια άποψη για το ποιος μπορεί να ειναι ο καλύτερος ή λιγότερο επόδηνος στρατηγός, βασικά δεν καθήσει ποτέ να αναρωτηθώ.

Nick Nikolas says:

Ἡ βὰρκα εἶναι πανὲτοιμη χειμὼνα-καλοκαὶρι. Ἄν ποτε ἔλθης Ἑλλὰδα πὰμε φαλκοναῖρα.
Ἀς παραμερὴσωμεν τὸν Ἀλὲξανδρον καὶ ἀς ποῦμε κὰτι γιὰ στρατηγοὺς.
Ξὲρεις ποῖος εἶναι ὁ καλλὶτερος στρατηγὸς ὀλων τῶν ἐποχῶν;

WAKE UP says:

202
Nick Nikolas Says:
May 17th, 2009 at 9:37 am

My dearest friend WAKE UP. Κατ’αρχας θελω νὰ σὲ συγχαρῶ γιὰ τὰ Ἑλληνικὰ σου. Κατὰ δευτερον θὲλω νὰ σοῦ πῶ ὂτι δὲν συμφωνῶ μὲ αυτὸ ποῦ εἲπες….δεν τρέφω καποια ιδαιτερη αγαπη για το έθνος χωρίς όμως να συμαίνει ότι ανεβαίνει στο μάτια μου το όποιο γειτονικό. είμαι απογοητευμένος η μαλλον και απ τις δύο πλευρές.

Εἲμαστε Ἑλληνες καὶ πρὲπει νὰ εἲμαστε περὶφανοι. ἒχουν ὑπὰρξει πολλοὶ ἀδικημὲνοι καὶ ἐκδιωγμὲνοι ἀπὸ αὐτὸν τὸν τὸπο ᾶπὸ τοὺς ἱεροτμωλὶτες ὀπως θὰ ἒλεγε ὁ Αἱσχυλος. Τὰ σὺνορα τῆς Ἑλλὰδος εἶναι ἰδεολογικὰ καὶ ὂχι γεογραφικὰ. Ἒλληνες εἶναι οἱ πεφωτισμὲνοι καὶ ὂχι οἱ ἐντειχισμὲνοι.

τὸ Ἐθνος ὂμως ὑπὰρχει καὶ ὀφεὶλομεν νὰ τὸ σεβὸμαστε.
Ἡ πατρὶδα ἐπὶσεις ὑπὰρχει καὶ εἶναι ὀλη ἡ γῆ καὶ ὀφεὶλομεν νὰ τὴν τιμῶμεν…
ὀτιδὴποτε μὴ Ἑλληνικὸ θὰ ἀπολεσθῆ ὂχι διὰ τῆς βὶας καὶ τῶν ὅπλων ἀλλὰ διὰ τοῦ πολιτισμοῦ.
οἱ Ἑλληνες τὰ ὅπλα τὰ ἔχουν μὲσα στὸ σπὶτι τους διὰ ἄμυνα. ὄταν ἐξὲρχονται τῆς οἱκὶας τους δὲν τὰ πὲρνουν μαζὶ τους.
————————————————
Ορίστε, τέτοια λες και με ρίχνεις. Αυτός ο ελλήνισμος είναι πρώτυπο..αρκει να γίνετε και πράξη.
Αντε Νικόλα ερχετε καλοκαιρι, ετοιμαζε τη βάρκα. Κίτσο αν δω καπνούς στο βουνό θα στείλω τους μπλε 😀

WAKE UP says:

201
Kitsos Says:

May 17th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Σχεδόν όλα όσα έχεις πει τις προηγούμενες ημέρες εδώ, ταυτίζονται
με αυτά που κατά καιρούς βλέπω γραμμένα στο ανθελληνικό-προπαγανδιστικό
μπουλγκαρμακ του Νικ. Στοΐδη και των συνεργατών του,
το οποίο -σημειωτέον- δεν δίνει χώρο
στους αναγνώστες του να σχολιάσουν τα εμμετικά που γράφει.
Ως εκ τούτου, να υποθέσω ότι είσαι εκ των φανατικών αναγνωστών του;
Ή εκ των συνεργατών του;;;!!!
Ή -τρίτον- απλώς και τυχαία συμβαίνει να ταυτίζεσαι;;;
Το μπουλγκαρμακ που χρηματοδοτείται από ανθέλληνες της
Βουλγαρίας, αποτελεί βασική πηγή κειμένων και γιά το
επίσης ανθελληνικό και χρηματοδοτούμενο από Σόρος κλπ
”ουράνιο τόξο” των Βοσκόπουλου -- Βαλλιανάτου,
το ιντιμίντια και τις διάφορες παραφυάδες του και γιά διάφορα άλλα
καφενεία που μερικοί αποκαλούν ”πολιτικά”, ”επαναστατικά” κλπ.
Στο παρόν ιστολόγιο, στις κατηγορίες ”μπουλκγαρμακ” και ”σκοπιανή
προπαγάνδα”, έχουν ήδη απαντηθεί σχεδόν όλα όσα από ιστορική κλπ
άποψη έχεις θέσει εσύ και άλλοι και κάθε φορά που θελήσεις να
ξεκαθαρίσεις κάτι, μπορείς να ανατρέξεις εκεί.

καλα ολα οσα λες περι ανθελληνισμο μονο που εγω αγνοώ τα παραπάνω καθώς δεν κατοικώ εδώ και κάποια χρόνια στην ελλάδα. Θα επαναλάβω πως ούτε στιγμη δεν είπα πως ο αλέξανδρος ειναι η δεν ειναι ελληνας. Είπα μόνο πως ντρεπομε να θεωρούμε απόγονος τους και ειληκρινά πιστευω πως υπερτιμάτε λαθος ανθρώπους υποτιμόντας την ίδια στιγμη τους εαυτους σας.
κείμενα με μυστιρια ενθετα που γράφουνε για ουφο και ανακαλύψεις περίεργες τα θεωρώ χρήσημα μόνο για προσαναμα

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Επίσης, δώσε βάση και σε όσα πολλοί σχολιαστές με γνώσεις Ιστορίας,
πατριώτες και καθόλου εθνικιστές, έχουν γράψει.
Εγώ δεν είμαι ιστορικός, αλλά κριτικός αναγνώστης της Ιστορίας.
Υπάρχει εκεί μία χρησιμότατη λίστα 100 τουλάχιστων τίτλων ξένων συγγραφέων,
στα κείμενα των οποίων θα βρεις απαντήσεις και σε άλλες απορίες σου
που ίσως προκύψουν στο μέλλον. Όπως κάνουμε όλοι μας !!!

δεν υποτιμαω κανέναν ιστορικό και αναγνωρίζω την σχεδον μηδενική μου αξία ως ιστορικό εφόσον δεν ανήκουν σε ομαδες όπως αυτες που προανέφερες αλλα ειναι τίμιοι και ξεκάθαροι στην εργασία τους. Αυτό που κάνω εγώ ειναι απλός μια εξέταση των δεδομένων.δεν ανακαλύπτω! εξετάζω-κρίνω

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Ο εθνομηδενισμός δεν είναι μία ανίατη αρρώστια -το αντίθετο
θα έλεγα- και μπορείς εφόσον το θελήσεις, να απαλλαγείς από αυτήν,
όπως έχει συμβεί σε πολλούς ανθρώπους που ψάχνουν την αλήθεια.
Φτάνει να μη δίνεις τις απαντήσεις μόνος σου, πριν ακόμα διατυπώσεις
τις ερωτήσεις σου. Αν δείξεις…αγάπη, ΟΛΑ γίνονται !
Στο μόνο ερώτημά σου που εγώ θα μπορούσα να επαναδιατυπώσω
δύο λόγια, είναι όταν ρωτάς εάν ο Μεγαλέξανδρος ήταν ηθικό στοιχείο,
ή εάν μπορεί να αποτελέσει σήμερα πρότυπο προς μίμηση κλπ.
Η απάντησή μου είναι ΝΑΙ (!!!), γιά την ΕΠΟΧΗ ΕΚΕΙΝΗ αυτά που
έκανε ήσαν ΚΑΙ ηθικά ΚΑΙ δικαιολογημένα !!!
Δηλαδή τι πιστεύεις εσύ ότι θα έπρεπε να κάνει ΤΟΤΕ;

είναι πολύ σωστό που αυτο που λες -- να μη δίνεις τις απαντήσεις μόνος σου, πριν ακόμα διατυπώσεις
τις ερωτήσεις σου -- γι αυτο ειμαι εδω. μεσω την συζητηση με εσας εξετάζω τις απόψεις μου οι οποίες ισχύουν μέχρι να τις απορρίψω (με μια σειρά λογικών συλλογισμών) και με την βοηθεια σας το βλεπω και απο διαφορετικες σκοπιές.

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Ούτε μπορούμε όλοι ΣΗΜΕΡΑ που οι συνθήκες και τα μέσα γιά
άμυνα είναι τόσο ΔΙΑΦΟΡΕΤΙΚΑ, να κάνουμε το αγαπημένο σας
ακροβατικό κόλπο και να συζητήσουμε ”τι θα έκανε ο Αλέξανδρος
ΕΑΝ …ζούσε τώρα” ! ΕΑΝ η γιαγιά μου είχε ρουλεμάν;;;
Ρωτήστε την φίλη σας την…γοργόνα.
Υπάρχουν ΑΛΛΟΙ τώρα στα πόστα και αυτοί θα κριθούν από την
Ιστορία πόσο μικροί ή μεγάλοι είναι.
Οι οποίοι, γιά να υιοθετήσουν γιά την χώρα κάποιο αμυντικό δόγμα
τώρα που έχουμε και …χριστιανισμό, ελπίζω ανάμεσα στα άλλα
δόγματα, να έχουν μελετήσει ΚΑΙ το …αντιχριστιανικό δόγμα του
Μεγαλέξανδρου που διδάσκεται παγκοσμίως.
Εύχομαι να έχουν θέσει στα επιχειρησιακά τους σχέδια
ότι μπορεί να φανεί το πιό αποτελεσματικό γιά την ασφάλειά μας και
μαζί να μη χρειαστεί να χυθεί ούτε σταγόνα αίμα !
Δεν είναι μόνο ο Νικ που γράφει πιό πάνω ότι δεν αντέχει να δει
το αίμα των ζώων που εκτρέφει στην ωραία ορεινή Αρκαδία.
Εγώ, σε αντίθεση με σας τους δύο ψαράδες, δεν μπορώ να δω ούτε ένα
ψάρι να σπαρταράει έξω από το νερό.
Ετσι, στις διακοπές μου παίρνω τα βουνά και αφού δεν πάω γιά
ψάρεμα, εκεί ψηλά στις κορυφές, κάνω το ”άλλο” !!!

κοίτα με τον nick ψαρεύουμε όχι περισσοτερο απ όσο θα φαει καποιος. γι αυτο τι το πιασω εγω το ψάρι τι μου το πιασει αλιευτικο, λιγο αλλαζει.
στο βουνο ψιλα τι ακριβως κάνεις? μετά απο αυτο μήπωσ σε κώβει η λόρδα? έπιτα τρως? 😀

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Συμπερασματικά αναφέρω ότι απέναντι σε έναν κατακτητή
που απρόκλητα -και πολλές φορές- είχε εκστρατεύσει κατά
των Ελλήνων με ό,τι αυτό συνεπαγόταν, βρέθηκε ο Αλέξανδρος
να έχει το σθένος, τις αντικειμενικές δυνατότητες
και το χρέος απέναντι στο έθνος του να αντιδράσει έτσι ώστε
το κακό να μην συμβεί πάλι με τον τρόπο που ήθελαν οι Πέρσες
και οι σύμμαχοί τους.
Εάν αυτό δεν επετεύχθη με απόλυτο και μαγικό τρόπο ή με τον καλύτερο
και πιό αναίμακτο, αυτό σημαίνει ότι ο Αλέξανδρος δεν είχε άλλη
επιλογή.
Μη ξεχνάμε ότι ΔΕΝ ΗΤΑΝ…ΧΡΙΣΤΙΑΝΟΣ, ούτε ΘΕΟΣ ή ΗΜΙΘΕΟΣ,
ούτε…χιώτης που έλεγε ”σφάξε με αγά μου να
ΑΓΙΑΣΩ”, αλλά ένας ηγέτης των πανελλήνων με γκάτς, ΠΑΝΤΑ
ΠΡΩΤΟΣ ΣΤΗΝ ΜΑΧΗ, που μπόρεσε να αναλάβει
την ευθύνη να πετύχει αυτό που και οι άλλοι
‘Ελληνες ήθελαν.
Δηλαδή, ΤΗΝ ΑΣΦΑΛΕΙΑ που εδικαιούντο !!!
Εάν σήμερα ο Χίτλερ ή ο Μπους, ο Στάλιν ή ο Μάο κλπ, θυμίζουν
σε μερικούς -ευτυχώς λίγους- από εσάς τον Μεγαλέξανδρο,
ο ίδιος δεν …φταίει σε τίποτα γιά αυτή την ψυχολογική κατάστασή σας
η οποία μάλλον οφείλεται στην μηχανιστική
και όχι διαλεχτική μεταφορά της μίας εποχής σε μία άλλη.
Δεν είμαι ψυχολόγος ή ψυχίατρος ώστε να δω μήπως σας συμβαίνει
και κάτι πιό σοβαρό.
Διότι ούτε ο Χίτλερ, ο Στάλιν, ο Μπους ή οι άλλοι χασάπηδες
δέχθηκαν ποτέ στις χώρες τους επίθεση από τους λαούς
και τις χώρες που προσπάθησαν ή προσπαθούν να αφανίσουν.
Σε αντίθεση, οι Έλληνες κινδύνευσαν σοβαρά οι ίδιοι με αφανισμό.
Χαρακτηριστικό είναι και το γεγονός ότι οι λαοί που κατακτήθηκαν
από τους Έλληνες με επικεφαλής τον Αλέξανδρο, ποτέ από τότε
έως σήμερα δεν έτρεφαν ή τρέφουν αρνητικά αισθήματα γι’ αυτόν.
Οσοι τυχόν έχουμε συναναστραφεί ανθρώπους όλων των κοινωνικών
τάξεων και θρησκευτικών ή άλλων πεποιθήσεων που κατάγονται
από τις χώρες που αυτός κατάκτησε, έχουμε διαπιστώσει
ότι η θετική αύρα του μεγάλου αυτού Έλληνα στρατηγιστή
αναδύεται ακόμα μέσα από θρύλους και ιστορίες των πατρίδων τους.
Κανένας τους δεν εκφράζει αρνητικά σχόλια. Παραστάσεις με την
μορφή του, κοσμούν πολλά από τα έργα της λαϊκής τους τέχνης.
Ακόμα και οι Ταλιμπάν έβαλαν στο χαρτονόμισμα του Αφγανιστάν
την μορφή του !
Σε αντίθεση με το φτύσιμο που πέφτει κατά των παγκοσμιοποιητών,
του Μπους και των στρατών τους, που χωρίς να έχουν δεχθεί την
παραμικρή επίθεση, επιτέθηκαν οι ίδιοι με διάφορα ψεύτικα
προσχήματα εναντίον λαών με μόνο σκοπό την υφαρπαγή
των πετρελαίων κλπ.
Υ.Γ. Κουμπάρε, εάν δεν είσαι ‘Ελληνας, είσαι δικαιολογημένος να
λες αυτά που σας μάθανε στα σχολεία σας. Να μου το πεις μόνο,
γιά να μη στραβώνομαι ΑΔΙΚΑ στο πι σι !!!
Το ίδιο δεν ισχύει εάν είσαι Έλληνας όπου απλά ανήκεις στην
κατά τ΄άλλα συμπαθή τάξη των εθνομηδενιστών. Γιατί τότε έχεις
περιθώρια να …σωθείς !!!
Με συντροφικούς και πατριωτικούς χαιρετισμούς,

εγω θέλω απλός να μην εκτρεφοντε ιδεες που φανατιζουν ποσο μαλλον οταν αυτες καλιεργουν και διαιωνίζουν ιδεες οπως το να καλυτερεψω τον βιο μου ανεξαρτητα απο το τι μπορει αυτο να προκαλει στον υπολοιπο κοσμο (στη χωρα η και ευρητερα, στην ιδια ουδετερη μοιρα τα εχω). Οσο χτυπαω οχι απλος κανω κακο σε καποιο συνανθρωπο αλλα ετσι το μαθαινω κι ολας να διεκδικει ετσι θα κανει στα παιδια του και στα παιδια μου. δεν ζηταω να γινουμε ολοι καλοι οι αγγελοι, με αυτα τα λόγια ζητάω να μην είμαστε (τουλαχιστον) κακοι.

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Με συντροφικούς και πατριωτικούς χαιρετισμούς,
ετσι!! ολε!! Τουρκία&Ελλαδα αγκαλια 😀

Nick Nikolas says:

Ἂν θὲς νὰ μὰθης γιὰ τοὺς βουλγὰρους διὰβασε αὐτὸ ἐδῶhttp://nestanaios.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-post.htmlκαὶ μὴν ξεχνᾶς ὂτι οἱ χειρὸτεροι ἀνθὲλληνες εἶναι αὐτοὶ οἱ ὀποῖοι αὐτοκαλοῦνται Ἑλληνες καὶ προσπαθοῦν διὰ τῶν ὀπλων νὰ ἐπεκτεὶνουν τὴν Ἑλλὰδα. Ὁ Ἑλληνισμὸς ἐπεκτεὶνεται διὰ τοῦ πολιτισμοῦ καῖ ἀμὺνεται διὰ τῶν ὀπλῶν. Μὲγα παρὰδειγμα ἀμυνας ΜΑΡΑΘΩΝ, ΘΕΡΜΟΠΥΛΑΙ, ΣΑΛΑΜΙΝΑ, ΠΛΑΤΑΙΑΙ. μὲγα παρὰδειγμα Ἑλληνος. ΑΙΣΧΥΛΟΣ ΕΦΟΡΙΟΝΩΣ ΑΘΗΝΑΙΟΥ. πολὲμισε καὶ στὶς τρεῖς μὰχες και συνὲγραψε ἀθὰνατα ἒργα. Καὶ οἱ “ελληνες” τῶν ἑξὸρισαν οἱ ἀχὰριστοι.

Γιατὶ αὐτὲς τὶς Θερμοπὺλες δὲν μποροῦσαν νὰ τὶς φυλὰξουν οἱ περιοῖκοι; Ἐπερπε νὰ ἐλθη ὁ Λεωνὶδας ἀπὸ τὸσο μακριὰ;

Nick Nikolas says:

Τὸν Ἑλληνισμὸ τὸν χαρακτηρὶζει καὶ ἡ συντομὶα. Δὲν τοὺς γνωρὶζω αὐτοὺς τοὺς κὺριους ποὺ μοῦ ἀναφὲρεις. Γνωρὶζω ὄμως πολοὺς Ἑλληνες καὶ τοὺς ἀναφὲρω ἐδῶ. http://nestanaios.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post.html
Τὸν ἀπεκὰλεσα ἠμιθὲο τὸν Ἀλὲξανδρο γιὰ νὰ μὴν τὸν χαρακτηρὶσω κὰππως διαφορετικὰ.
Τὰ πιστεὺω μου πὲρι Ἀλεξὰνδρου τὰ ἀναφὲρω ἐδῶ
http://nestanaios.blogspot.com/2009/04/blog-post_13.html
Μετὰ τὴν μὰχην τῶν Πλαταιῶν οἱ Πὲρσες δὲν ἐκαναν καν μὶα ἐξτρατεῖα κατὰ τῆς Ἑλλαδος. Ὁ ἐξυπνος Ἀλὲξανδρος μετὰ ἀπὸ 150 χρὸνια θεὼρησε ὂτι ἀπειλὴται ἀπὸ τοὺς Πὲρσες. Καὶ τὸ ἀποτὲλεσμα ἦταν ὴ Ρωμαικὴ Αὐτοκρατωρὶα.
Ὁ ἐχθρος τῆς Ἑλλὰδος εἶναι ἐντὸς τῶν συνὸρων καὶ ὁ Ἀλὲξανδρος πῆγε διακοπες στὴν Περσὶα. Γαμὴλιο ταξὶδι.

WAKE UP says:

>189
WAKE UP Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

1) # So, you wouldn’t fight for your freedom and equality, would you?#
of course i agree to fight in order to take back or gain a freedom i never had. on post 168 i talking a lot about it


## In other words your saying that it’s perfectly acceptable to take back the lands robbed by Turks such as f.e. occupied Cyprus.

QQ>what is important is that people who live there, in the half-turk cyprus, live in harmory same thing for the other half part. so there is no need to take any kind of action there unless its an action of peace such as to open boarders and mix people. an action to enstamblish a harmony between them.

1.1) by making a distintion between defender and conqueror
take a look on: [I am not sure I understand..killing more than many.] conqueror -- defender

## According to your opinion, Kolokotronis helped to set free “native Greek land” by killing people. What’s wrong than to free f.e. Makedonia, Ionia and Pontus occupied by Turks at that time?


QQ>well when we say freedom and ”to set free” it would be better to focus on the freedom of the civilians and not on the land. When kolokotronis was fighting, he was fighting to defend the rights of the humans where in threat. So if we suppose that now a new ”kolokotronis” will come to set free lets say konstantinoupoli-instambul what will he set free? i guess none. probably he will slave people because there, people are already free and they dont need any kolokotronis. so setting free is reaction probably refering to an instant action. that also means that wile if it was an action of defence once(imidiate action), in a distant future we are talking not about defence but about conquering. this period of time to take action depends each time from the circustances. can be 50 or 5000 years. for example in greece it was 400, a long time
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2) # What would have been the better option according to your belief -- Greek or Persian “slavery”? Did Alexander keep with his campaign the “free-minded” liberated from “barbarian slavery” or not?#
its like you are asking me to choose between bad or worst. so, even if we consider alexanders slavery ”just” bad in comparison with the worst it doesnt make him a personality that worths to be considered a great man (as we you to say alexander the great) great for avoiding a worst situation in order to make it bad? for me someone is great when converts a bad situation to a good one where people are free both in their actions and in their mind.as long as we accepted it as a soft slavery freedom is an utopia. this is a fact on every form of slavery. There is no need to go long time from today in order to make an example in greek reality. The dictature (considering as much softer form of slavery) of papadopoulos. was there any kind of freedom? the bad thing is that humans tend to forget and in that way they let history to recycle and repeat same mistakes.

## You’re saying therefore, that Alexanders “slavery” would have been the better of the “bad or worst” possibilities to choose from, are you?

QQ>no, i am saying even if! in order to afford the alexanders actions the less stricly i can and i still can find even in that way a reason to forgive him for what he have done.

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3) # Again, was there a difference between Greek and Persian culture or were they equal, according to your spiritual harmony and belief?#
of course there where to different cultures. having 2 different culteres is neither bad or good. its just a fact.

## And the two different cultures were not equal because they differed in “bad or worst slavery” as seen above.

QQ>i cant see were i say this i apology if that is what my typing trasmits. No, t2 culteres are not different because of the difference on its form of slavery. i only say that are 2 different cultures (can be art, habits etch ) and that the fact that are different doesnt not mean there is a good culture or a bad culture. i only say that its just a culture and an other.
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4) # Alexander did kill undoubtedly also during his campaign. Did historians also mention anything else?#
i need a more precise question. i mean historians will give dates and places that there was a fight, various names etch but the reason that im a standing on the fact that he killed so much is because that makes me understand a lot about what kind of person he was..from a humanistic point of view

## From a “humanistic” point of view, has academia (f.e. historians) indicated how Alexander’s deeds have influenced our present way of living or not?

QQ> From what i remember they say he ”exported” the culture.From my point of view a realy bad action from alexander. if you refer on that i can explain better what i mean
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5) #From your angelic point of view this would mean, that you’d accept the barbarian term
only if you’d have a barbarian in front of you in order to examine his values?
And what did you say? Each one of them “needs to be compared”?
You must be kidding my friend. Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#
i will ask then, you what is your opinion for socrates and his life? because you should also know that greek court condemned him to death. its true what you are saying..the procedure of examination is not an easy thing and its not easy doing it or the ancient greek politicians, workers, writers..all people that socrates used to examine and uncover the truth..they just killed him. we! the superior greeks! sometimes two situations might not be much different but a nice suit can make the difference. will make everything seem to be so good and normal.

## Yes, the “superior Greeks” did kill unfortunately Sokrates which of course was a mistake and wrong. So what?

QQ>it was a reply to make more clear that the brainwashed hooligans are not only the ”barbarians”
”Do this when a bunch of brainwashed hooligans tries to get hold of you -- good luck!#” same kind of people we are affording to daily but they are nicely camuflazed.
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6) # Let me paraphrase then: Is there a difference between a scholarly accepted truth and an individual’s opinion on historical matters?
we both went to a greek school so we got aproximately same input but now we sare 2 differnt points of view. so the difference will be on the way we ”translate” the facts. lets say a different interpretation. But that matters, if you mean facts, like: dates, names, actions cant be changed only from someone who studied or maybe discovered in some way a new evidence that will might bring to new considerations. i guess its a work of a historian. but even when a new consideration will come (as long as is objectively a new fact) and something will change, all individuals should accept. so all individuals will sare again the same opinion

## Until new scholarly research presents new findings about how Alexander’s campaign influenced our present way of live, I’m most certainly not going to accept any “personal opinion” on this matter.

QQ>what historians give you is the facts with dates numbers statistics names etch. its on you to make an opinion according to your morality. Dont be based dont trust so much anyones opinion. what i suggest you is to hear it and then examine it. after this reject or gain it. whats wrong on that? is it bad to think?
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7) # Mutual respect is a precondition for peace and harmony. Is the western civilisation and democratic freedom we’ve got nowadays the best we have including its limitations or not? Unfortunately, history shows that “spirituality” and good will alone is no match against brute physic. You either have both or your efforts to counter the brute are in vain.#
its good for me and you. dont go far away and take a look on number of deaths on iraq. so lets ask a civilian from there that if he is alive maybe has no house and kinds anymore. we just permit it without understanding that during this circle of deaths sooner or later will come our time too a our kinds time. so yes its good for me and you but its also periodical because its not good with a true and clear meaning..its just a matter of luck that in this period of time a war its not a reality where we live..

## Yes, we are undoubtedly lucky, however, only due to our forefathers who fought for their values against the “barbarians”.

QQ>i repeat, as long as you are happy for sutuations like this you just accept a periodical freedom. take a look on nick nikolas post 198
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# Attacking first might be used for both, defence and conquest.
Don’t get too caught up with “spirituality“, you might hurt yourself.#
yes but in case of alexander that is our argument he acted clearly as conqueror.
in fact my spiritual world is realy poor and i would more be worried for not taking more care for it than spending lees time for it. and since now most selfhurting had to do with the fact i didnt took care for my spirituality.

## Take care than. Wishing you all the best for your efforts.
Again, Alexander defended his superior cultural values with, if you like, conquest -- “defending by attacking” that is.

QQ>thank you, ill work on it. whatever happens its the only think that someone can cautch. stinodas ksoberges pianete ta poulia oxi to kelaidima tous. kapos etsi to eipe.
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9) # Right, we’re not the “all-mighty”.#
here i dont understand and i dont say its your fault as long as i recognize my enlish is not realy good

## There might be things we’re not able to change, f.e. the way somebody thinks.

QQ>yes of course. i also difasgree to force an action like this. what is fair, is that someone saws me a way and if i accept it i follow. following will meaningless unless i dont comprehate the path. comprehantion by forcing doeasnt exist.
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10) # Well done. You’re allowed to think in your exclusive way of “absolute material world” as long as you want. However, ignoring the fact that our present way of living is greatly influenced for the better by the deeds of Alexander is irrefutable.#
this world irrefutable is dangerous. sometimes something might be wrong and will never change because its an irrefutable situation and life goes on with same mistakes. it would be more honest to say: ok there is a problem..an here there is a political problem that will end in a good or in a bad way. and till its solved both parts will gain realy less (on human relations but on economics too). So i realy think its a case to open my eyes and my mind and make a research without ”irrefutable”. Just an examination and if happens that an opened mind view will return to the same considerations that where done before the examinations then it will also be more real than before. will not be sothing i accepted and ended like that. will be an input examinated confermed and accepted.

## I agree.
QQ> me too (for the moment) 😀
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11) # That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.#
someone said the most difficut thing to notice is the nose..so close so simple.
i start from 0 without irrefutable (that we mentioned before) slowly 0 will become sothing more complex but will still be simple. maybe in long time from here will be more complex.
when i make a thought, a simple one, i try the same time to see where this thought doesnt work. as i cant find it non working(for the moment) on its simple form i let it like this. the fact i cant fight my own simple thought that is so simple seems that is compact and can defend from my outher thought. thats also a reason im here to be honest. i try to help myself by the examination you make on my thoughts and try to find where it doesnt work.

## We’re not talking here about mathematical truth (1+1=2) but in the sense of probability. So, the probability that Alexander is only a killer as you’ve claimed, is close to zero:

QQ>probability is limf(x) with x tending to infinite 😀
let me ask you a question. etimologicaly, when someone is a killer?

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WAKE UP #182, 187:
****And as long as what i write above is true based on common logic that cant be regected, even if its greek, dont be so proud, it would be more honnest to feel ashamed. read above starting from my post 164 and saw me that i am wrong. i would be realy pleased. thank you, best regards.****
5) In your wicked understanding of logic, historic truth means propaganda lies,
doesn’t it?
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
5.1) So what?
Is that all you can think off in your elementary, ignorant and confused way of thinking?
o>>>well its elementary and i agree but its not ignorant as long as you are not prooving it to me. a little confused..yes might me but for sure much less than the rest i saw in here. you are kidding and making fun of me for this small example:
>>reply>my logic follows history and its realy elementar. but is also true that is honnest and clear. example:
alexander reached india -- in order to reach india people where conquered and killed -- alexander is a killer.
well this example put in contrast all your way of thinking because it prooves alexander was a killer. thats way you become mad, because you see a truth but you cant accept it or afford it. and you cant do this because you are (for one more time) joking enstead of accepting or defending.
# That’s were you’re wrong. It’s your simplistic / reductionist opinion about the topic at hand, and that’s it. You’re free however, to believe whatever you want.

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12) sounds like a formality typing again and again but its not, and here it is one more time:
thank you for the conversation and best regards, looking forward to revieve soething from you (i changed it a little!!)

## Best regards.

QQ>Best regards and lot of respect too